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Dec 28 2012

Piers Morgan Proclaims Bible to Be Flawed

It isn’t just our Constitution that CNN moonbat Piers Morgan has a problem with. He doesn’t like the Bible either:

“It’s flawed,” Morgan said during an interview with evangelical pastor and author Rick Warren. “Both the Bible and the Constitution were well-intentioned, but they are basically, inherently flawed – hence the need to amend it.”

He doesn’t like the Bible because it repeatedly and in the strongest terms condemns homosexuality. Conversely, to liberals unclean acts of homosexual sodomy are sacraments, nearly as sacred as abortion.

“My point to you about gay rights for example – it’s time for an amendment to the Bible,” Morgan told Warren. “You should compile a new Bible.”

That has been done. But Morgan is too busy swinging a sledgehammer at the foundations of civilization to keep up with the news.

When Warren pointed out that “Opinion changes but truth doesn’t,” Morgan sneered,

“We’re going to agree to disagree on that.”

That is, truth is whatever pointy-headed liberal elitists currently agree to pretend it is. Some liberals’ minds are such cramped little crap holes that they cannot conceive of truth with more validity than the latest New York Times editorial page.

Robert Jeffress, pastor of the historic First Baptist Church of Dallas, Tex., told Fox News that Morgan was incredibly off-base with his remarks.

“For Morgan to label God’s divine revelation as ‘flawed’ because it doesn’t confirm to his own opinion is the epitome of arrogance,” he said. “My guess is that the Bible will be around a lot longer than Morgan’s program.”

No wonder the British have made it clear that they do not want Morgan back if our government yields to popular demand and deports him.

homosexual bible blasphemy
Happy now Piers?

On a tip from Wiggins.

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  • paulus

    So…the pot calls the kettle____

  • TED

    Just another LIEberal a$$hole that thinks he’s god. HE’S NOT!

  • Robert Maxwell

    Ted Turner employs a moron?

  • Louisiana Steve

    First the Constitution then the Bible. Are we seeing a pattern here? Maybe PM is the one who is flawed.

  • TED
  • TED

    At this time, more than ever,
    Help Us Now

  • M.Wilson

    You know, every single thing he advocates is already implemented in Britain, he has British citizenship, and he seems to openly despise Americans. So why is he here? Why is it so important to him that these policies come to America?

    I understand that for most people the answer to the “why don’t you just move?” question is “I can’t.” Getting a new citizenship can be expensive, involve navigating miles of red tape, and at the end of it you can still be denied. Most European countries don’t even seem to be accepting white immigrants anymore.

    But this isn’t a problem for Morgan. He is already a British citizen, all he has to do is hop on a plane, and even if he can’t find a job there he can probably maintain the same standard of living thanks to their lavish cradle to grave entitlements. So if everything he loves is already in Britain, why is he here?

  • Sam Adams

    M.Wilson says:
    December 28, 2012 at 7:56 am

    You know, every single thing he advocates is already implemented in Britain, he has British citizenship, and he seems to openly despise Americans. So why is he here? Why is it so important to him that these policies come to America?
    _________________

    “Foreign Invader” comes to mind. He’s like a non-native species, such as Russian thistle or hudzu. He is attempting to take over a country that has no defense for him.

  • justme

    Why pay attention to anything on CNN? Hell, all of cable and network tv for that matter. A good book on Roman History is far more beneficial than any slop that is put on television.

  • Nicki Thomas

    Instead of killing gramma…why couldn’t the hammer guy do something useful and get rid of this liberal scum?

  • Alxandro

    Can we start a petition to have this bloody bastard sent back to England?

  • http://www.henrypbabcock.com Henry

    I’m waiting for him to suggest that the Quran needs to be amended… or, maybe he thinks feels that POS is OK as is.

  • St. Gilbert

    As much as I despise ole Piers, he’s not entirely wrong here. Typically liberal, he’s just got it backwards. What he calls errors are actually truths, and his virtuous amendments are actually falsehoods.

    One needn’t employ the post hoc fallacy to see that the Constitution, which now enshrines all manner of violations of natural law, universal falsehoods, metaphysical absurdities (with more on the way), and unwarranted constraints on essential liberties, must have some fundamental flaw. Not to start a Bible fight here, and I say this cordially and respectfully: as for the Bible’s ‘flaws,’ well, not all Bibles are alike, and it depends on which Bible and whose translation we’re talking about. Is it the Bible that eliminates seven books and parts of others from the original canon, or the one that removes or adds key words to advance a certain agenda? Pushing for a “living Constitution” is no less progressive than any of the historical alterations of the Bible. Piers advocates his own personal reading of the Constitution, which is being done by progressives before our eyes, and he advocates altering the Bible to advance a political agenda, which has been done by progressives for the last 500 years.

  • KHarn

    “Agree to disagree” in PLAIN ENGLISH means “to argue”, not “to drop the subject”. What these idiots mean is “let’s agree THAT WE disagree”.

    Just one of the many “benefits” of a socialist-dominated school system.

  • Joe

    Who gives a flying crap what piers snotnosed asshole thinks. His whole audience could fit in an outhouse.

  • KHarn

    “Alxandro says:December 28, 2012 at 9:13 am”

    There already IS one on the White House web site. The British responded with a petetion to KEEP THE SOB HERE.

  • Michelle

    I’m actually not religious at all….

    HOWEVER: Jesus, Thor, Zues, etc. are GODS

    So when a GOD is speaking to a man it’s kinda special, and if that man transcribes what that GOD says then that writing also becomes special and by it’s very existence CAN NOT be flawed, because a GOD has a much deeper understanding of the universe and all things contained in it than the man.

    Weather it’s the Bible, or the Constitution is not even relevant because that DIVINE INSPIRATION as mentioned by the man who wrote them is above question or rebuke!

    Morgan is just a petty small insect trying to quarrel with the giant can of raid pointed at him!

  • Sam Adams

    Michelle, I’m afraid that I must take issue on several points.

    God inspired men to write scripture; those men were imperfect, therefore what they wrote isn’t necessarily perfect. Additionally, there are limitations on language; there are many things which can not be expressed fully or accurately by any of the languages we use.

    The next issue is translation; there is no such thing as a perfect translation. Many words and phrases have no equivalent from one language to another. The translator must use his best judgment in deciding what words best convey the meaning of the language being translated.

    The Bible is also incomplete; those folks who assembled the Bible included some books which might not be scripture, while excluding others.

    There is also missing scripture, such as the scripture which tells us how to deal with pompous British invaders. Rumor has it that the scripture may have included words such as flogging, stones, or noose.

    The Bible, with its flaws, is far superior to whatever comes out of Morgan’s mouth.

  • Jimbo

    Liberalism is an extreme flaw.
    The flawed ones can kiss my ass.
    The Morgan jerk is a crap-eating cockroach.

  • Jodie

    I feel like I’ve been punched in the gut. The Bible is not flawed in any way!

    Examples please of where the Bible is flawed. Maybe there is something that some don’t understand or that they don’t agree with, but it is PERFECT.

    The Bible is the book that God gave us to tell us everything we need to know about our lives here on Earth.

  • a rose by any other

    “Examples please of where the Bible is flawed”

    Yikes. There are just so many to choose from… but lets do this the simple way.

    Start with 1 Kings – Bible gets the value of Pi wrong. Like frowny-face-on-4th-grade-homework wrong. Calls Pi a whole number. How very… Divine. There were more accurate values of Pi thousands of years before your bible was written. Guess those Egyptian Gods were better than yours, or something.

    Lets talk old testamaent (which all the hate-on-gay people just loooove) which in addition to hating gay people also is positively all about slavery, calls people who touch the skin of a pig unclean (sucks to be you, NFL)… I see people posting shit on this site on the Sabbath (you are hereby allowed to find the fuckers and kill them – Exodus 35:2). How many of your inlaws are farmers? They ever plant 2 things side by side? You wearing underwear rght this moment that has elastic and cotton fibers in it? Kill them, too. Then, yourself.

    You religious zellies are incredibly stupid. You pick and choose lines that you like, ignore the rest (and especially ignore the really profoundly stupid bits) then call the cherry-picked remainder “Divinely inspired”.

    And the rest of us laugh at you. Just in case that was unclear.

  • Aussie-John

    a rose by any other,

    From the Hebrew text: The common word for circumference is qav. Here, however, the spelling of the word for circumference, qaveh, adds a heh (h).

    In the Hebrew Bible, the scribes did not alter any text which they felt had been copied incorrectly. Rather, they noted in the margin what they thought the written text should be. The written variation is called a kethiv; and the marginal annotation is called the qere.

    To the ancient scribes, this was also regarded as a remez, a hint of something deeper. This appears to be the clue to treat the word as a mathematical formula.

    Numerical Values

    The Hebrew alphabet is alphanumeric: each Hebrew letter also has a numerical value and can be used as a number.

    The q has a value of 100; the v has a value of 6; thus, the normal spelling would yield a numerical value of 106. The addition of the h, with a value of 5, increases the numerical value to 111. This indicates an adjustment of the ratio 111/106, or 31.41509433962 cubits. Assuming that a cubit was 1.5 ft.,3 this 15-foot-wide bowl would have had a circumference of 47.12388980385 feet.

    This Hebrew “code” results in 47.12264150943 feet, or an error of less than 15 thousandths of an inch! (This error is 15 times better than the 22/7 estimate that we were accustomed to using in school!) How did they accomplish this? This accuracy would seem to vastly exceed the precision of their instrumentation. How would they know this? How was it encoded into the text?

    Please try again….

  • Aussie-John

    a rose by any other,

    In response to your other comments, you need to read the Bible then comment. If you did so, you would find that your opinions are without foundation, and Levitical laws were written for the Jews of the time. Are any of us pre Christian era Jews?

    As for homesexuality, it is God who condems it. We hate the lifestyle, but that does not mean we hate the person. Surely there are people you love who do things you disagree with, but you love the person anyaway?

    Hey Jodie, the Bible is not flawed, that’s why people like ‘a rose by any other’ hate it…

  • Jodie

    Aussie-John says:
    December 28, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    “Hey Jodie, the Bible is not flawed, that’s why people like ‘a rose by any other’ hate it…”

    Thanks Aussie-John! When I read your posts, I thanked God for answering my prayer!

  • Stephan The Original

    “Bible gets the value of Pi wrong.”

    Do some research. You will find that is a simplistic and false claim.

    “which in addition to hating gay people”

    You cannot BE a sexual activity. You can DO it, and DOING homosexuality is wrong because the human body is made for the opposite sex. The fact that the bible speaks against homosexuality when everybody on the planet has a mother and father makes it entirely reasonable in my view and Piers Morgan an idiot. Unlike you and him, the bible differentiates between behaviour and the people doing that behaviour.

    “also is positively all about slavery”

    Quote to me the name of the second book of the bible, then do a word search on ‘Egypt’ in the bible, and get back to me, will you?

    All your other furphies about pig skin, mixed seeds and other crap have been answered over 1000 times by scholars who – unlike you – have actually done more than 2 minutes meaningful study of the bible.

    OK?

    “You pick and choose lines”

    Look in the mirror please. You will see lots of people laughing at you behind you, btw, in case that isn’t clear.

  • Michelle

    For Sam Adams…

    I’m aware of all of those thing’s, but my point was that even though man is flawed he was still reciting the words of a god.

    You kinda went of into the highly technical, which is fine, I just left all that out cause the people here are smart enough to know that stuff…

    The dumb commies though wouldn’t grasp any of it anyway so there just isn’t any point in explaining it to them.

  • jeigheff

    Piers Morgan is flawed, along with the rest of us. God’s word, and Jesus, the savior he sent to save us, are not.

  • St. Gilbert

    Listed below are five of the greatest Bible translations every produced. They have one primary thing in common. Many Bible-believing people would consider that commonality a flaw.

    https://media.benedictpress.com/images/SB2032/SB2032x.jpg

    http://shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/s/rsv-study-bible-nt_1.jpg

    http://shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/n/knox-bible.jpg

    http://old.usccb.org/nab/images/cover-sample.gif

    http://static.trinityroad.com/prod/500/1111192.jpg

    Are these Bibles flawed? The point being that not all Bibles are the same, and translations, interpretations, and origins matter immensely. Either that, or the only flawless Bible is the one that any particular individual declares to be so.

  • Stephan the Original

    If anyone wants to do some further reading on bible versions then I very strongly recommend this article in two parts – about 10-15 minutes that will help you enormously on the subject.

    http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2011/06/23/on-bible-versions-and-translations-part-one/
    http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2011/06/23/on-bible-versions-and-translations-part-two/

  • Sam Adams

    Michelle says:
    December 28, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    For Sam Adams…

    I’m aware of all of those thing’s, but my point was that even though man is flawed he was still reciting the words of a god.
    ____________

    I agree with your point.
    _____________

    Jodie says:
    December 28, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    I feel like I’ve been punched in the gut. The Bible is not flawed in any way!

    Examples please of where the Bible is flawed. Maybe there is something that some don’t understand or that they don’t agree with, but it is PERFECT.
    ______________

    Sorry, Jodie; I don’t want to hit you in the gut, insult you, question your faith, or cause you any other problems. And I think I know where you are coming from. However, the Bible isn’t perfect.

    For example:

    1. Which version of the Bible is perfect? Who’s translation is perfect. Is the Bible that the Roman Catholics use the perfect version? Is the King James Version of the Bible (the one which I prefer) perfect? Is a more recent translation the perfect version?

    Perfection is a singularity. If the Bible is perfect, there can only be a single perfect version; all other versions or translations are, by definition, imperfect.

    2. The Catholic Bible includes several books that are left out of the King James version. It stands to reason that either the Bible with more books is the more complete, or the Bible with fewer books is the more correct version. Perfect books don’t include books that aren’t holy scripture, nor do perfect books leave out books that are holy scripture.

    3. Paul references several letters that he wrote that are not included in the Bible. Maybe they were lost; maybe they weren’t included for a reason. But the fact is that a number of letters are referenced but are missing. In fact, throughout the Bible, there are about 29 books that are referenced that aren’t included in the Bible.

    4. The Apostle John made an interesting statement:
    John 21:24 “This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.”

    John 21:25 “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”

    John the Beloved states that the Bible only contains a portion of what Christ said and did. Perfect books, by definition, don’t omit things, especially those things performed by our Savior. John’s statement really says that it is impossible to completely write down everything Christ did.

    Now, that hardly gets into the issue of differences in translation, either. That doesn’t mean that the Bible isn’t the word of God, nor does it mean that we can’t learn the doctrines of salvation from it.

    Again, my purpose isn’t to offend you, challenge your faith or testimony, or to lead you astray. The Bible never makes the claim that it is a perfect book. Like I tried to state before, it isn’t God’s fault that the Bible isn’t perfect. Just look at what he has to work with.

  • Sam Adams

    Jodie, please note that I am not getting into a doctrinal debate with you. Piers Morgan and similar moonbats take issue with the doctrinal content of the Bible, such as suggesting that homosexuality should no longer be condemned. Of course, he is wrong on that point, as he is on most others.

  • Aussie-John

    Jodie,

    The bible is perfect in that it perfectly says what God wants us to know. In spite of what others have said, it doesn’t need to say everything that Jesus did or said.

    In my opinion, the King James and New King James are good, but I also have a hebrew / greek / english interlinear bible. Great for finding out what the words ‘really’ mean!!

    God gave us brains to research and study with, and Scriptures that are so clear that a child will understand, but so deep that even the most learned person will read it over again and get something new every time.

    Stay strong in the faith, your example here on this site is truly a blessing.

  • Stephan the Original

    Sam, sorry, but your definition of ‘perfect’ is impossible to verify because of at least two reasons:

    1. No other book exists that you could call ‘perfect’.
    2. You are not perfect yourself so you are incapable of perfect judgement.

    Let us consider your first question. If you read the second of the two links I provided above, you will understand why your question is actually simply absurd. Translation from one language to another can never be ‘perfect’, even when the sentence might be as simple as ‘person A travelled to destination B using method C as transport.’

    Look at it this way:

    God sees the entire timeline of human history in front of Him and KNOWS that different methods of communication exist. He therefore deliberately constructs a Word that still works despite the imperfection of man. Frankly, I actually consider that supernaturally and infinitely brilliant, and quite the opposite of something that can be criticised so flippantly as you did.

    If God knew all about the other letters of Paul, and the other references as well that are mentioned, it doesn’t automatically follow that they SHOULD be included. Maybe, just maybe, He knows what He is doing, despite the Sam-Adams-Standard-Of-Perfection.

    I find this sentence from you especially troubling: “Perfect books, by definition, don’t omit things”

    Really? Consider these five verses:

    “Listen to my words:
    “When there is a prophet among you,
    I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
    I speak to them in dreams.
    But this is not true of my servant Moses;
    he is faithful in all my house.
    With him I speak face to face,
    clearly and not in riddles;
    he sees the form of the Lord.” – Num 12:6-8

    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.” – Deut 29:29

    “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.” – Dan 12:9

    “And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows – was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.” – 2 Cor 12:3-4

    “And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” – Rev 10:4

    All of the verses above specifically address knowledge that is deliberately kept hidden from the majority of us, and we are not really told why, although we can deduce from the character of God in many places in Scripture that it is ultimately for our own good. I am quite sure that God is not hampered by some of what Paul wrote not included in the New Testament. The suggestion is actually quite silly. What else, do you think God throws His hands up in despair in heaven and says “Oh No! Those stupid humans managed to forget the other stuff that my Son Jesus did! What was John thinking when he wrote that stuff about the whole world not containing enough books? He’s ruined everything! Whatever will I do now?”

    Sam, I realise you were trying to be reasonable, but the fact is you simply don’t have the necessary qualifications to criticise the bible the way you do. At the end of the day – which you oddly seem to realise – if it manages to communicate salvation well enough along with sufficient knowledge and wisdom to get through the various things life throws up – and do this for any person living on the planet in any age, that seems remarkably beyond the capacity of any other book I know. I contend for this reason it IS perfect, even though I may not fully understand how or why.

    Have you also considered that God deliberately did it this way (allowing for shallow allegations of ‘imperfection’) to test those who would look for any excuse to reject Him, even when it really is quite flimsy? By the way, consider these verses also:

    “And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times” – Psalm 12:6
    “The law of the Lord is perfect”- Psalm 19:7
    “Every word of God is pure” – Proverbs 30:5

    I’m with Aussie-John. The Piers Morgans of this world think they can sit in judgment of God and His perfect Word. But Morgan is ultimately a nobody before the Creator. Let me finish with this:

    “He that reads his Bible to find fault with it will soon discover that the Bible finds fault with him.” – C.H. Spurgeon

  • Jodie

    Sam Adams,

    Thanks for your kind way of wording things! I don’t want to get into a debate either. Aussie-John and Stephan the Original already did a great job of explaining my viewpoint – much better than I could have.

    Any time a person opens the Bible, if they are in tune with the Holy Spirit, they will read exactly what God wants them to read. It ALWAYS happens that way for me. It can be good or bad. Sometimes, I’m being rebuked for something I said or did, but I always understand – sooner or later – why I was led to a certain passage.

    I have read the King James Version, New American Standard, and the New International Version and I have found no significant difference between them. There is nothing that I have read in one translation that seems different in another. Sometimes when I post a Biblical passage on this site, I will look at a multitude of different translations to find the quote that I think readers will best understand. I have never found a difference in true meaning between the translations.

    Are there any specific examples of anything that you think is different in one versus another? (Not including the Roman Catholic Bible.)

  • mimi

    its a riot when old ted nuggent imitates that rat face pussy in his interview with mr.feelings!

  • Sam Adams

    Stephan the Original says:
    December 29, 2012 at 6:45 am

    Sam, sorry, but your definition of ‘perfect’ is impossible to verify because of at least two reasons:

    1. No other book exists that you could call ‘perfect’.
    2. You are not perfect yourself so you are incapable of perfect judgement.
    ____________

    Let’s consider a couple of things:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perfect
    per·fect (pûrfkt)
    adj.
    1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind.
    2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.
    3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient.
    4. Completely suited for a particular purpose or situation: She was the perfect actress for the part.
    5.
    a. Completely corresponding to a description, standard, or type: a perfect circle; a perfect gentleman.
    b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting.
    6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool.
    7. Pure; undiluted; unmixed: perfect red.
    8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day.
    ____________

    Is there any book that meets the definition of “perfect?” Probably not. Am I perfect? Most definitely not. Am I capable of perfect judgment? Nope; there is but one who is capable of perfect judgment. However I am able to discern the difference between perfect and not perfect, just as I am capable of recognizing errors in mathematical equations.

    Let me point out a few issues for you to ponder. First, God spoke to special men, gave them specific callings, which also included having them write down what he told them. These men are called prophets. The Old Testament is comprised of books written by prophets, as well as other books that are largely historical. In the New Testament, we have the letters of Christ’s apostles, and accounts of others of Christ and his life.

    After the death of Christ and his apostles, several hundred years later, these books and writings were gathered together. The “wise men” of the day…who were not prophets or apostles, made decisions on what to include and what to exclude. Obviously there were disagreements on what to include and what to exclude.

    Now, you may suggest that everything essential was included, and nothing essential was excluded from understanding the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Personally, I think you could leave “Songs of Solomon” out of the Bible and nothing leading to salvation would be lost.

    For the next 1000 years or so, church doctrine was based upon the contents of the Bible, and upon tradition. Tradition were some of the items not included in the Bible, like the information that Christ taught his apostles during the 40 days after his resurrection. Tradition also provided the text for many of the sacraments practiced by the Church. For example, when the bread and wine are blessed and passed, the prayer that is offered to sanctify those items is not included in the Bible.

    Those in charge of the Church then used their positions of power and knowledge in corrupt ways (as people in power usually do). They sold “indulgences,” aka forgiveness in advance for sins to be committed.

    Reformers such as Martin Luther saw the corruption in the Church and wanted to help eliminate it. Of course, the Church wasn’t having any of it. So the Protestant movement was formed, protesting the errors in the Church, and trying to get back to the purity of Christ’s gospel.

    One of the things that the Protestant movement did was to reject the entire concept of tradition. Instead, they took the position that the Bible was the only source of truth.

    Since the Protestants had/have no other source of truth, no traditions to refer to, no prophets or apostles, they had to cling to the concept that the Bible was perfect, complete, and the only thing needed for salvation.

    Stephen, you make the following point:
    All of the verses above specifically address knowledge that is deliberately kept hidden from the majority of us, and we are not really told why, although we can deduce from the character of God in many places in Scripture that it is ultimately for our own good.

    I agree entirely; there are many details that are not revealed to man. But that doesn’t make the case that the Bible is perfect. Nor does it make the case that the Bible is complete.

    Jodie, you state “I have read the King James Version, New American Standard, and the New International Version and I have found no significant difference between them.” So which one is the perfect translation? Which one is literally God’s word, syllable for syllable, word for word? I note that you quickly dismiss the Roman Catholic Bible. Apparently it isn’t God word…but I don’t know why.

    Before you pile on. labeling me as an unbelieving heathen, I’m not hear to do damage to the Bible or people’s belief in it. It is the word of God, subject to its limitations. Those limitations are caused by man and not by God.

    The final thing I would add is that why are there so many interpretations of this perfect book? There are over 1,200 different Christian churches. All are trying to understand and live the Gospel of Christ. All are trying to return to Heavenly Father. All are seeking the same inspiration from the Holy Ghost to correctly interpret the scriptures. Help me understand that one.

  • Jodie

    Sam Adams,

    “I note that you quickly dismiss the Roman Catholic Bible. Apparently it isn’t God word…but I don’t know why.”

    I knew you were going to go there. I did not include the Roman Catholic Bible in my comment, because I haven’t read it. Please don’t start THAT argument.

    Now, after all of that you just wrote, I still don’t see an example of what you think is different between translations or where you think the flaws are in the Bible.

  • Sam Adams

    Jodie, the Roman Catholic bible includes the apocrypha; My King James Version excludes it.

    From The People’s Encyclopedia: “Biblical apocrypha (from the Greek word ἀπόκρυφος, apókruphos, meaning “hidden”) denotes the collection of ancient books found, in some editions of the Bible, in a separate section between the Old and New Testaments or as an appendix after the New Testament”

    Martin Luther was the first to include the apocrypha as a separate section of his translation. In the King James version of the Bibles which I have purchased, the apocrypha is missing altogether.

    So is the version of the Bible which includes the apocrypha the perfect version, or is the Bible which excludes the apocrypha the perfect version?
    ______________

    Now I realize that I am being a PITB about this issue, however, when people use the term “Perfect” they need to define what that term means or be subjected to the search for actual perfection.

    The very fact that two translations do not agree word for word is clear evidence that one is less than perfect, assuming the other is perfect. If you have three translations, at most only one is absolutely perfect.

    Let me give you another example. I happen to be familiar with the Finnish language. Now, the Lutheran Church was the state religion of Finland for many years with over 90% of Finns members of that church. One quirk of the Finnish language is that there is no future tense…no “will” if you will. Therefore, some things are difficult to translate into Finnish. Would you tell your Finnish friends (if you had some) that the English version of the Bible is perfect, but their Finnish version is less than perfect due to “imperfections” in their language?

  • M.Wilson

    What’s the difference between how Leftists treat Mein Kamph and the Bible?

    One is the diametric opposite of everything they stand for, is absolutely reprehensible to them, and they do everything they can to erase it from the face of the Earth.

    The other is Mein Kampf.

    And yet they deign to tell us that they know what is moral better than we do.

  • Adam

    Who cares what that idiot Morgan (Or the idiot troll “Rose by any other name,” for tht matter) thinks about the Bible or any other subject? They clearly knownothing about it. It is God’s Word, it has broughthope and inspiration to God’s children for millennia, it will continue to do so long after ignorant scoffers like Morgan and “Rose” are dead and their own worthless words forgotten, and as someone attempting to get into ministry, it is the most important book I have ever read. Now, if you all will excuse me, I think I’ll finish my nightly reading of it (I’m on 1 Corinthians 14 at the moment).

  • St. Gilbert

    Ann does a good job on two levels in this series. First, on the Biblical justification for armed self-defense. Second, on just how critical Bible translations are. Read her 4-part series, “Jesus & Guns.”

    http://barnhardt.biz/

    Lower on the page is another translation issue titled, “The Linus Van Pelt Lesson On Translation Accuracy.”

    Yes, some Bibles are flawed. Many popular modern versions are written with feminist revisions and “gender neutral/inclusive language” to fulfill a pc agenda (ESV, TNIV). The NIV’s “dynamic equivalent translations” are missing verses and add ideas not found in the original Hebrew or Greek. Translations matter. Interpretations matter. Commentaries matter. Authority and origination matter. Eliminating books for personal, political, or even religious agendas, how ever genuine or with whatever good intentions, matter.

    Note, Ann is one of thousands of highly intelligent converts from truth-seeking Evangelical Fundamentalism to Catholicism. Intellectual honesty, spiritual integrity, historical accuracy, and pure reason bring these people to the Fullness of Faith and the truth that makes us free. As Fulton Sheen said so well, “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

  • Stephan the Original

    Sam,

    You truly missed the point.

    “Am I capable of perfect judgment? Nope; there is but one who is capable of perfect judgment. However I am able to discern the difference between perfect and not perfect, just as I am capable of recognizing errors in mathematical equations.”

    Does it really need to be pointed out that unless you have access to ALL relevant information, you cannot “discern” anything of the sort?

    In a mathematical equation you might have access to all you need to know, but in the ‘equation’ of the entire history of the world, I categorically guarantee you do not!

    “But that doesn’t make the case that the Bible is perfect.”

    Not surprising since I wasn’t making that argument. But what it does do is it makes the case that you cannot judge whether it isn’t, because you do not and will not have enough information to make that judgement, even aside from your own lack of perfection.

    On your further points, including your reply to Jodie, you really need to read the link I gave. Most of your arguments are answered within. Here it is again.
    http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2011/06/23/on-bible-versions-and-translations-part-two/

    I really have to question if you are seriously and honestly examining the full ramifications of what you are claiming. Are you on a mission for truth, or just interested in your own opinion? Do you really consider that you are saying that God is hampered by the machinations of mere men?

    “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
    “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
    Dress for action like a man;
    I will question you, and you make it known to me.
    “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
    Tell me, if you have understanding.
    Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
    Or who stretched the line upon it?
    On what were its bases sunk,
    or who laid its cornerstone,
    when the morning stars sang together
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” – Job 38:1-7

    etc. etc. etc.

  • Sam Adams

    Stephan the Original says:
    December 29, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Your linked article backs up exactly the point I was attempting to make. There are various ways to translate from one language to another; each has their strengths and weaknesses; none are perfect.
    __________
    “But that doesn’t make the case that the Bible is perfect.”

    Not surprising since I wasn’t making that argument.
    _____________

    But that is the argument that Jodie made. The problem is that Jodie didn’t define what she considers to be perfect.
    ____________

    “I really have to question if you are seriously and honestly examining the full ramifications of what you are claiming. Are you on a mission for truth, or just interested in your own opinion?”
    ___________

    Truth stands independent of opinion. My opinion changes truth not one whit. God knows the end from the beginning; his plans are not thwarted.

    The problem I have is when people make assumptions/statements of what the Holy Scriptures say which are not supported by the Holy Scriptures.

  • Jodie

    Sam Adams,

    There’s no way you can prove your point if you don’t give any examples. What flaws or discrepancies do YOU see between any of the Bible translations that I mentioned?

    And don’t include the recent translations that are gay friendly or gender neutral. We know those are not God’s word.

  • Jeffery

    No mention or law against slavery. In fact it condones it.

    Birds come before land mammals.

    The sun stands still.

    Women are blamed for getting raped.

    Human sacrifice.

    Genocide and the ordered slaughter of woman and children.

    The sun was created on the first day and then it was created on the fourth day.

    The flood that never happened.

  • Vesus

    So we’re supposed to believe that a single family (Noah’s) spawned 6 billion people without any incest? Or that serpents can speak? You people want the rest of us to take you seriously when you consider these absurd myths “perfect”?

  • Tito

    What about all of the numerical contradictions between 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles?

  • Tony

    Could you address the 2000+ absurdities on this site: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm

    And the almost 500 contradictions over here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

    And the contradictions listed here: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

    And resolve whether or not Christians are bound by the Old Testament Laws or not? See: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/otlaw.html
    And, cite chapter and verse where the Jesus character says what laws from the Old Testament can be ignored (e.g. slavery, stoning, shellfish, mixed fabrics, etc.) but the bits about homosexuality can’t be ignored?

  • Tito

    And the mustard seed is not “smaller than all other seeds”. Matthew 13:31.

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