moonbattery logo

Mar 09 2016

Two Views of the LaVoy Finicum Shooting

Two camera angles of the LaVoy Finicum shooting demonstrate what tends to happen when people fail to prevent the government from becoming overgrown:

Finicum was shot three times in the back. He was an Arizona rancher who took part in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge takeover in Oregon.

Finicum was driving the truck that carried Ryan C. Bundy, 43, Ryan W. Payne, 32, Shawna Cox, 59, and Victoria Sharp, 18. In the Jeep behind them was driver Mark McConnell, 37, Brian D. Cavalier, 44, and Ammon Bundy, 40, the public face of the occupation. They were bound for a community meeting 100 miles north of the refuge in John Day.

Although a prosecutor ruled the shooting to be legally justified because Finicum could have been going for a gun, the Justice Department is investigating the incident.

Finicum died for his opposition to the federal government’s excessive control of land. The cause is noble, although authoritarian advocates of Big Government naturally disagree.

who-owns-the-west
The federal government controls far too much.

On a tip from Sean C.



  • Pingback: Two Views of the LaVoy Finicum Shooting()

  • Nobama

    Judicial Watch: Documents Reveal US Army Indoctrinated Soldiers On Dangers of ‘White Privilege’

    ‘Our society attaches privilege to being white and male and heterosexual.’

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-documents-reveal-us-army-indoctrinated-soldiers-on-dangers-of-white-privilege/

  • ray

    He wasn’t facing them when they shot him. If I were part of that ambush (God forbid), with all that firepower present, I’d consider him ‘minimal threat’. One skinny old man in heavy snow. Car’s the bigger threat, can’t estimate arms within or booby-traps.
    The occupation wasn’t a mistake, but attempting it with out-staters, and w/o local support, is a no-no in the rural west. Not sure what they was a’thinkin’. Also they were unprepared spiritually, having requested the intervention of . . . Billy Graham Jr. :O)
    So apparently Billy’s hotphone to God also was OOS, because by the time the car occupants got around to requesting actual God, they’d already shot one dead.
    These people were unprepared tactically and spiritually, and paid for it. About as wise as installing female governors. So when you get shot in the back, technically it’s not an ambush.
    As for the agents of the state, the footage speaks for itself.

  • Rotohammer

    I thought Finicum might have been shot while his hands were still up, but the audio doesn’t indicate that. Still, this was very ham-fisted and staged. The state and feds provoked this.

    What may doom the FBI agents is the cover up. At 5:36, just as Finicum got out of the truck with his hands up, an FBI agent fired two shots toward Finicum. FBI agents tried to cover that up. Busted. This is explained in the linked article.

  • Mr. Freemarket

    If women and people of color suddenly decide to self-identify as white males, they, too, could enjoy all the benefits of “white privilege.”

  • Mr. Freemarket

    People who live in the west understand what it is to be under the federal government’s thumb.

  • ray

    I heard two prelim shots, or could have been canisters.
    His hands were not up, but the original footage I saw previously was inconclusive. He was waving his hands in front of him a little, which could be interpreted as ‘going for a gun’ — assuming the rest of the scene was high threat, which it was not.
    But to my viewing, at the moment he was shot multiple times, he was facing away and making no threatening gesture. Why choose that moment to shoot him? As a deliberate provocation/escalation? Or did some SWATling just panic?

  • TED

    If we don’t fight back NOW this is our future under the LEFT!

  • TED

    AMEN!! Good thing they STOOGE for the left. BUT, one day they will want freedom when they wake up and realize they are right back on the democRATS plantation again!.

  • TED

    unless

  • TED
  • TED

    ..

  • TED

  • TED

    Proven…

  • and are you folks aware of the facebook “kill clive bundy” page? it’s been reported and nothing was done. this is tyranny full frontal assault by fbi and local law enforcement… this proves they will do as they are told… they will follow orders. if your hands are up and you’re white, you’re dead.

  • Artfuldgr

    they murdered him…
    oj simpson gets to drive for miles, gets out nothing
    this man in the backwoods, gets murdered

    white privelege – the right to be shot instead of arrested…

  • Artfuldgr

    “Our prayers right now are with everyone involved in what’s happening
    with Oregon, and especially those in law enforcement that are risking
    their lives,” Cruz said

  • Gene

    I’m sorry, this is not a murder. I watched this video several times. And the police are not at fault, but the rancher is. Finicum committed at least a half dozen misdemeanors and felonies during this video (not to mention traffic infractions). Failure to obey an officer, eluding arrest, threatening an officer (when he said they were gonna have a blood bath if they tried to stop him). There is also assault on a police officer and attempted murder of a police officer, when he tried to run the roadblock. If you watch the video closely at about 5:30 you can see the truck strike an officer as Finicum tries to run the roadblock. The officer survives only because of the deep snow. Finicum then leaves the vehicle and refuses to obey police commands making wild gestures with his arms and appears to reach into his coat while officers have their guns on him. Anyone who does this is going to get shot and deserves to be. Fincum even told the police at the very beginning that he wasn’t going to comply and they would have to shoot him in the head (makes it look like suicide by cop). Finicum even asks his passengers where the guns are, demonstrating that he was armed and thinking of using them. Finicum also put the lives of the other passengers at risk when did all of this. If Finicum had lived he was looking at spending decades if not the rest of his life in prison.

    In short, Finicum was an idiot, who would be alive today but for his own actions. You need to look elsewhere if you want to find a murder.

  • 762×51

    A prosecutor ruled the shooting legally justified because Finicum COULD have been going for a gun. Let’s examine that statement.

    This represents a major shift in the Rules of Engagement police are following. The use of deadly force by police is governed by the Tennessee v. Garner ruling in 1985 in which the U.S. Supreme Court said that “deadly force…may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others.” Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

    Finicum could have been going for a gun, or a cell phone or a chew can. No probable cause existed to open fire. No weapon was in view and at no time did Finicum make a threatening move.

    On the other hand, the “law enforcement” present used military equipment and tactics to bring about this confrontation. They set and executed a military style L shaped ambush against a group of civilians who had no military training or equipment. The civilians lack of training and experience meant that they could not have known what they were up against. As they had not used violence or committed any crime that would have justified the death penalty, there was no reason for them to expect this type of lethal attack. This is essentially a replay of the Ruby Ridge homicides.

    Government has decided it can do whatever it wants to who ever it wants any time it wants and then absolve itself of any wrong doing. Clearly there are thugs out there who will ignore their oath to defend the Constitution and obey illegal orders to kill civilians. That is tyranny.

    The refuge take over was a bad idea, it was a bad strategy, executed by civilians with no experience led by imbeciles with very limited experience. That does not justify the execution of a man who was not holding a weapon or acting aggressively.

  • 762×51

    There is more truth to this than you realize. On the AZ – Mexico border there is an area called the San Rafael Ranch State Park. It is a “Conservation” area for some flower or something. You cannot go into the area without being arrested for trespassing and subject to steep fines and imprisonment. The boundary goes right up to the border fence and the drug smugglers use it as a private highway because they cannot be pursued there. I can take you there if you want to see it.

    A friend of mine at the location I described. That’s the real border fence he is standing next to.

  • Gene

    You are misrepresenting the law and the facts. When you are involved in an armed standoff with police, threaten police, fail to obey lawful commands, lead the police on a chase, and attempt to run a road block nearly killing an officer. There is reason to believe that you are dangerous. When you then attempt leave on foot, refusing follow orders to surrender, and then reach into your coat, that creates a reasonable apprehension of imminent danger and the officer is allowed to protect himself and others. What he was reaching for is irrelevant. The officer is not required to wait to the barrel of a gun pointed at him. You acknowledge that “Finicum could have been going for a gun,” which is “probable cause” under these circumstances.

    Also, the fact that police officers are better trained has no bearing on the analysis. The police are supposed to be better trained. The police were not using tanks and bazookas, they had the same type of weapons that the protesters were known to have had. And your silly chart does not resemble the scene in the video. If we were in court it would be inadmissible as evidence, for that reason.

    You are right that the officers take an oath to defend the Constitution, but they are also protected by it. They are not required to forfeit their lives without due process because some idiot thinks he can disregard the law and police orders.

    If this were a “black lives matter” protester doing the exact same thing, everyone would realize that the officers were placed in fear of mortal danger and acted appropriately. The same rules should apply here.

    I suggest you go to law school and learn something about what you are talking. However, I would suggest avoiding liberal cesspools like Harvard and Yale. Unless you want to be on the Supreme Court, in which case you have to go to Harvard.

  • Fiberal

    Even worse, Finicum endangered the lives of everyone in that truck with his actions.

    But you have to go easy on 762×51. He’s got some childhood issues. He plays around with any posting that mentions guns, ammo or military activity and then proceeds to stink up the thread with bragging and threats.

  • TED

    HOW convenient place THAT would be to smuggle in ANYONE or ANY AMOUNT you wished too! Completely under government control…

  • 762×51

    YEP, the smugglers use it every night, I’ve watched them through night vision, and the Border Patrol does nothing. We have watched them move through it and called our BP and DHS contacts and they won’t do anything about it. If we pursue them though they will arrest us.

    What I wouldn’t give for a weapons platoon with crew served hardware.

  • TED

    Wouldn’t THAT be a MIDNIGHT SUPRISE!! 😎

  • 762×51

    Yep, fin stabilized ordnance raining out of the sky sucks anytime but being mortared at night is the worst. You can hear them whirling out of the sky and see the flashes but there is no perspective on how far away the impact was unless you can feel the blast wave.

    It even sucks if it’s your own stuff being dropped just in front of your position in a “danger close” support role. I can set up a mortar, aim and fire it but I never had much confidence in their accuracy.

    We got mortared by our own guys one night because of some screwup. No one got killed but not for lack of effort. Fortunately, they were the older M29A1 81mm mortars not the newer 120mm stuff like the Stryker carries.

  • 762×51

    You are misinformed or misrepresenting the law and the facts.

    There was no reason for the police to have set up an armed standoff at a remote building that is completely vacant this time of year. If they had not reacted at all, no one would even have noticed because the facility is normally abandoned during the winter. Claims to the contrary are false.

    There were actually more visitors to the refuge during the “standoff” than there would have been without it. Locals and others were coming out to see what was happening, bringing food to the occupiers and so on. None were ever threatened nor were they prevented from using the refuge facility. The “police” were the aggressors, creating the confrontation, they were the only ones who used weapons, no one else did.` Your government was more pissed off that someone had the audacity to call them on their theft of land than they were concerned that an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere was occupied. It is their escalation that caused this death.

    The “police” characterized the event that led to the death of Finicum as a traffic stop. Please identify other instances where “traffic stops” have been conducted by “police” with armored vehicles and automatic weapons. That the “police” weren’t using tanks and bazookas is irrelevant. They weren’t using fighter jets either but they did have gunships at their disposal. What kind of stupid standard is that? They were using military equipment and military tactics against civilians. Apparently you think that is OK, I don’t. They were the aggressors in this death. They were the only ones who aimed weapons at anyone and the only shots fired were by them. At no time did Finicum “reach into his coat”, or have a weapon, look at the video.

    Your argument suggests that ANY movement at all is justification for lethal force. That isn’t true, nor should it ever be. When you have someone with 10 rifles pointed at them, it is impossible for them to draw and fire a weapon. Probable Cause would have been if they saw a weapon, if he had one in his hand, etc. Not, well the last guy had one we can just ahead and kill this guy, just in case. I’ve had bad guys at gun point, real ones. No one is fast enough to draw on me in that circumstance so there is no danger. If Lavoy Finicum was named Abdul Muhammad and was confronted on the streets on Afghanistan by the combat forces of the United States and was killed under these exact same circumstances, the soldiers who fired their weapons would now be held for criminal prosecution for violating their ROE. Your position is that somehow, American citizens should be fired on by police where soldiers in a war zone would be prohibited from firing – BULLSHIT!

    You are supporting a system where militarily trained and equipped “police” can kill anyone they want because that person “might” have done something. The “crimes” committed here were trespassing and perhaps vandalism, evidently that warrants death in your totalitarian world. Should they have done it? No. Should they have been killed for it? You seem to think so. I wonder what Randy Weaver’s wife would think about that. Oh wait, we’ll never know because she is dead. Murdered by “police” who fired on an unarmed woman holding an infant. Weaver was later found not guilty on all charges so there was never a reason for the actions taken by the government that killed his wife and son. OOPs, sorry about the dead wife and kid, Randy. We thought there was a chance that they might have done something at a some time so we killed them peremptorily. Old Gene told us it was OK to do it.

    The “chart” I supplied was not a representation of the scene, moron. It was a diagram of a military L shaped ambush and it accurately shows the use of terrain and troops to execute that type of ambush. It meshes perfectly with the scene in question but I suppose it is not clear to some POG. You can dismiss the drawing, it just demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the military tactics used by the government. Your refusal to acknowledge reality speaks more to your lack of knowledge that to how “silly some diagram appears to you.

    You want to whine about the Constitution yet seem to have no problem with a police state where citizens are executed without due process. I didn’t see any weapons in the video, except in the hands of police. Who was in mortal danger here? Who acted appropriately? The citizens who never pointed a weapon at the police acted appropriately but were place in mortal danger by the police. Watch the video, they tell the soldiers they are going to meet with a county sheriff, which was true and could have been easily verified by the tyranny enforcement team. It was part of a series of meetings with local law enforcement they had held. What hardened criminal goes to meet with the local sheriff? Your stupid argument that they broke some laws defies reason. It says that police can use deadly force in any scenario they want, regardless of the crime committed. Had Finicum or anyone else in the vehicle pointed a weapon at the cops, fine, go ahead and shoot. That he took off was a mistake but not one that warranted death. The dumbass cop that jumped in front of his vehicle was lucky, but him jumping out in front of the vehicle does not constitute attempted murder in the part of the driver. He should have been suspended for doing it.

    I wouldn’t go to law school if you put a gun to my head. Lawyers are assholes, a plague on society that Shakespeare discovered a cure for centuries ago. You seem to believe that truth comes from authority, tells me who you are. As for Harvard, the only thing that place is good for is an air strike. I suggest you join the military so you have some idea what you are talking about but you seem more interested in justifying and excusing the actions of the government. This wasn’t “police work” it was a military assault. Clear to me having participated in plenty of them. If you want to live in a totalitarian police state, go to some shit hole country that already has one. We aren’t interested in having it here.

    Martin Neimoller is wondering who will speak for you when they come to take you.

  • TED

    ROGER THAT!!

  • 762×51

    Found a new ally Fibtard? Old Gene likes the idea of the government being able to kill anyone it wants any time it wants. You two are a good fit. Fascist shills who want the state to do your dirty work for you.

    Cowards always do.

  • 762×51

    You conveniently overlook the shots fired into the vehicle while Finicum is still in it. You also still cling to the story that he was reaching into his coat, he never did, his hands were in plain sight and empty. They were already shooting at him before the roadblock. Civilians under fire panic, that is not reason to kill them. He asked the other occupants if they wanted to get out, they declined. His question about the guns could just as easily have been to be sure they weren’t out and being pointed at the cops. You don’t know what was in his mind, you just make it up to justify your fascist support of the state.

    Decades in prison for occupying a deserted building? On a first offense? It was a bird watching facility, not a nuclear power plant.

    The truck never struck anyone as no cops were reported injured. The idiot you reference jumped out in front of a speeding vehicle endangering himself.

    I notice you blithely dismiss the use of the military equipment and tactics. Partially because you don’t understand them, but a0lso because you think it is OK for the “protect and serve” crowd to become soldiers. You have no idea what that means.

    You may also want to be careful with Fibtard, he has taken a liking to you because you disagree with me. I had the audacity to disagree with some slobbering post he wrote months ago and he has trolled me ever since. An over inflated ego combined with a room temperature IQ makes him the toughest guy in his mom’s basement but like any chihuahua, he will nip at you constantly if you mess with his food dish.

Alibi3col theme by Themocracy