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Sep 29 2017

Open Thread

jolson jones

On a tip from TED.



  • Torcer

    So if there was any question as to who is the aggressor here – these are the links to the originator of attacks against Conservatives postings from today:
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3542051694
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3542043769
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3542012319

  • OK… but this thread was clean. Emphasis on WAS. I will concede perhaps not for long – but I could be wrong about that. And now we’ll never know.

  • WHY DIDN’T I GET THE MEMO?

    Was this featured here? If so I must have slept through it:

    https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf

    OK I’m going to run down the lists here and see what, AS FAR AS I KNOW, Trump actually did. If I get ANY wrong PLEASE call my attention to those!

    1) Propose TERM LIMITS Constitutional Amendment – did he? Kinda an empty one since he can say: “OK Congress, time to come up with a term limits Amendment” but can’t really go any further than that. Did he propose it?

    2) Hiring freeze on federal workers, with exemptions – did he? I know there was a lot of fuss about some actual staff CUTS he made in some key places, or rather cuts his appointee was making.

    3) For every new federal regulation, two regulations must be eliminated. This one does not sound realistic BUT could be accomplished by folding every pair of regulations into one – and folding more than 2 into 1 new one to create some space for new ones that way. Did he start to reduce the regulatory burden in any meaningful way? Not sure this way was best, but it’s a start. But did he?

    4) Five year ban on certain ex government officials becoming lobbyists. Not sure if that would be a pledge or some sort of law. If a law, would need Congress to pass it… unless he used his phone and his pen.

    5) Lifetime ban on certain ex government officials lobbying on behalf of foreign governments the way the Clintons and others did. How do you like the way I worked that in there? Not sure how he would pull this off either, if he even could, without a law from Congress or a technically illegal, Unconstitutional Executive Order such as those Obama was putting out every day he was in office, it seemed.

    6) A complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for our elections. Nice goal, I would say practically impossible to fully enforce given the realities of the world today.

    OK I’m going to skip down a section… since I know he did immediately accomplish several of the seven actions to protect American workers.

    1) Cancel every unconstitutional… well the stuff Obama did. He overstated this. It’s going to take him a long time to fix EVERYTHING Obama broke, but he was getting a pretty good start on this task – wouldn’t you agree?

    2) Right away he did get Scalia’s replacement seated – and did a pretty fine job of it, IMHO.

    3) Cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities – well, again here he may be overstepping his lawful authority saying that in that way – but he has done some stuff on this one – and it promptly got taken to court.

    4) Begin removing criminal illegal aliens – and cancel visas to countries that won’t take theirs back. Yeah, he has been doing both these things – in fact big news today he hit “sanctuary cities” hard and rounded up a bunch of them.

    5) Suspend immigration from terror prone countries/regions… yeah and he got right on that one and the courts illegally blocked him so he got back on it and they illegally blocked him and now it looks like the Supreme Court will slap their wrists over it and nobody will learn the lesson that needs to be learned about the courts not exceeding their authority the way they have on so many issues lately.

    And then he gives 10 “Acts” he intends to get Congress to pass, giving broad outlines of what he wants each to accomplish… very similar to the idea of the original 1994 “Contract with America” and he has been working on some of them, with Congress – and Congress has been screwing up. I expected that from the Democrats, but the Republicans?

  • KirklesWorth

    With apologies to @Bodhisattva:disqus, note how @torcer:disqus is afraid to name names and post context…so it’s up to me to shed the light. Odd considering Torcer wrote “please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out” eight times in one day (2 3 4 5 6 7 8).

    Torcer has been called out on the previous 18 times this month Torcer initiated attack threads at or about me and my so-called non-existent “attacks on conservative[s]” (Torcer‘s actually) and to which I wrote this response on the previous Open Thread to Bodhisativa’s attention. This also serves to disprove this latest faux attempt to impugn me with Torcer‘s lies. But as Torcer‘s preaching but not practicing illustrates:

    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Some of us are busying creating lesson plans and writing papers, and we don’t have time to waste arguing minutia.
    Torcer: Don’t you have anything better to do?
    Torcer: Same here, I do have some curiosity in trying figure it out, but as they say I have much bigger fish to fry:
    Torcer: Now, are we done with this incessant waste of time?

    And what were the precursors to the three links Torcer listed above that Torcer conveniently omits?

    Torcer►KHarn: (09/28/2017) heh! It would be nice if KirklesWorth would debate like an adult, but I suppose that is too much to expect…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) ah yes, and now the originator of attacks against Conservatives delves further into the gutter.
    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/28/2017) The originator of attacks against Conservatives referenced this problem from a thread 21 Days ago: That is but one example. But just look at this thread.. The originator of attacks against Conservatives kept it up….

  • Jester
  • Jester
  • StephaneDumas

    A bit bored today ,so let’s transform that Kaepernick photo into a internet meme.
    [url=https://imgflip.com/i/1wt889][img]https://i.imgflip.com/1wt889.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]

  • Jester
  • StephaneDumas

    [url=https://imgflip.com/i/1wt8e2][img]https://i.imgflip.com/1wt8e2.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]

  • StephaneDumas

    That would be worth for a “El Risitas” parody clip.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_x_CJH1jL0

    And it might be worth to post that Downfall parody clip where Hitler is angry then Lena’s book was only #2 back in 2014. Just imagine how it’ll react when her movie will flop. 😉
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3t6d0wjkXM

  • OK, so call attention to the “dehumanization of women and sexualization of the female form” by building a 45 foot tall STATUE of a naked woman?

    Seems somewhat hypocritical to me.

    But I guess that makes sense to moonbats.

    Which is why sane people will never completely understand them.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/09/29/heres-why-45-ft-tall-nude-sculpture-coming-national-mall/718238001/

    Maybe if they want to fight the dehumanization and sexualization of women, they should start within their own ranks?

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/sep/30/maggie-gyllenhaal-pornography-is-art-form

    Maggie Gyllenhaal: ‘Pornography is an art form’

  • Torcer

    @Bodhisattva
    My point was to prove that Originator of attacks against Conservatives is the aggressor here, having launched three attacks yesterday which I ignored.

    I am merely documenting those actions here, nothing more. And true to form, two new long and confusing assaults were launched with accusations of what the Originator of attacks against Conservatives has been doing all along – wasting time in pointless arguments over past events.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3543797852
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3543788900

    Update: True to form, another assault was launched after this was posted:
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3544199328

    Everyone should be able to easily distinguish the differences between the two of us.

    I’m willing to actually discuss the issues with you and others on the site and try to provide some extra historical insight on the issues raised such as on the “Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz” thread

    I endeavour to keep my posts as straightforward and succinct as possible.

    The Originator of attacks against Conservatives has a tendency to use projection, vitriol, double standards and falsehoods while trying to legitimize those false accusations by tying them to some link it has posted that has nothing to do with the issue at hand instead of merely posting the relevant excerpt having no qualms over posting a long and confusing screed that no one cares to read.

    BTW, if the Originator of attacks against Conservatives really wanted to be ‘apologetic’ it would cease and desist this endless bickering over minutiae of the past.

  • KirklesWorth

    “Launching three attacks” LOL! Oh please, I would never take your title away of “originator of attacks on conservatives”. You earned it fair and square. And if you want to get a real feel for our differences, you can peruse Torcer‘s 2016 election swan song of “We tried to inform you” trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers. But for now, here was your first attack (within September of 2017):

    Torcer►geeknerd: (09/07/2017) Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?

    You attacked conservative Trump supporters and called them a “cult following” that made a “mistake” defeating Hillary. And when I dared to ask…

    KirklesWorth►Torcer: (09/08/2017) What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    …you claimed that question was an “example” of how I am a so-called “originator of attacks against conservatives” (such delicate snowflake sensibilities) when you hold that title and I did no such thing. You lied about it 20 times in one day. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

    What I did is call you a poll-spouting Hillary-helping so-called “conservative” who had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary who was trying to shake your obvious history of zeal to get Trump defeated for Hillary and that I don’t suffer Hillary lackeys gladly. Plus I reposted other people’s comments about your anti-Trump / pro-Hillary tendencies and pointed out your polls-obsession to try and get people to allow a Hillary presidency because that’s what you wanted. And to prove my contention, I posted:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

    Update:

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/30/2017) Update: True to form, another assault was launched after this was posted:

    LOL! “Assault”! It’s called the truth with references.

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/30/2017) I endeavour to keep my posts as straightforward and succinct as possible.

    LOL! What a crock! You “succinctly” duplicate my posts, initiated attack threads to try and abandon context and the things you are unable to answer 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017,
    18. 09/28/2017

    And when I tried to sync the conversation 15 times (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15)

  • Torcer

    IIRC, I saw that on his website a year or so ago.
    Those are some very good ideas, hopefully President Trump will be able to learn from his experiences and do better in getting them passed.

    And on a side note, his tax cut proposal could have been far bolder than it was…. Fair Tax anyone?

  • Change is the only constant – it is only their predictions of climate change that are a farce.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/los-angeles-palm-trees-dying

    A beetle and a fungus are killing off the trees that have become synonymous with Los Angeles, making way for trees that give more shade and use less water

    Palm trees greet you outside the LAX airport, they line Hollywood Boulevard, stand guard over the Pacific and crisscross neighbourhoods poor and rich, a botanical army of stems and fronds which symbolise the world’s entertainment capital.

    Apparently not for much longer. LA’s palm trees are dying. And most won’t be replaced.

    A beetle known as the South American palm weevil and a fungus called Fusarium are killing palm trees across southern California. Others are dying of old age. “It’ll change the overall aesthetic because palm trees are so distinctive. It’s the look and feel of Los Angeles,” said Carol Bornstein, director of the nature gardens at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles.

    A city tally in 1990 estimated the number of palms on city streets at 75,000, a number which has not been updated but is destined to plunge in coming decades, the Los Angeles Times reported this week, citing officials.

    No one knows how many will die, or how fast. For palm lovers, the even worse news is that they won’t be replaced, perhaps not even mourned.

    Authorities will instead plant other species that give more shade and consume less water – important factors for an overheating city. By the middle of the century, LA is expected to be three to five degrees fahrenheit warmer and to have triple the number of extreme heat days.

    All of which has nothing to do with CO2, even if it comes true to any extent. Frankly the results of excessive urbanization, too much concrete and asphalt, have created more “warming” in L.A. than anything else.

  • I don’t see what their problem is – they’re all fundamentally dishonest and fake.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/style/male-feminists-joss-whedon-snl.html?mtrref=www.drudgereport.com

    It’s a tough time to be a male feminist, especially in Hollywood.

    A few weeks ago, Kai Cole, the ex-wife of Joss Whedon, the man who created “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” and who has been honored for creating strong female characters, wrote a highly personal takedown of him for The Wrap, a Hollywood industry website.

    In the post, Ms. Cole, a film producer, said that Mr. Whedon “hid multiple affairs” with “his actresses, co-workers, fans and friends” during their 16-year marriage. His explanation for why he had so many female friends, she said, was that “his mother raised him as a feminist.”

    Moreover, Ms. Cole called out his “hypocrisy” for “preaching feminist ideals” while using their marriage as a “shield” to commit adultery. In essence, she branded Mr. Whedon, the director of the coming “Justice League” superhero film, a fake male feminist.

    It’s a label that appears to be gaining cultural currency, especially in the Trump era.

    “Saturday Night Live” aired a sketch last season called “Girl at a Bar” in which a succession of seemingly sensitive male feminists (“I worked for Hillary,” one says) try to pick up a woman at a bar, only to resort to misogynistic language when rebuffed.

  • I’m not going to even hint that it was an idea that originally came from me, but for over 10 years I’ve been saying we should eliminate the entire tax code, start over with a tax on CONSUMPTION so that what you’re taxed is ultimately based on what you use. The socialists should actually love this idea because they’re always going on about how people consume too much so in a way this fits their agenda of “punishing” those who do. They must be sadists – they’re into punishment, but oddly enough aren’t interested in GETTING punished.

    Another name for “fair tax” is “consumption tax”, I gather. So yeah, we’re on the same page there.

  • I’d rather not be drawn into this any more than I drew myself into it. I think perhaps I have inadvertently influenced you both to go at it MORE rather than less. Should not have stirred the pot I guess.

    I got my share of attacks from both sides – don’t even remember or care who it was doing the attacking, during the election for not being solid enough BEHIND and AGAINST Trump. It did not change my stated position, because attacks don’t work in the long run. Hillary Clinton is proof enough of that.

    If I get your side of the argument, Trump has already demonstrated that he’s likely NOT going to do many of the things some people used as an excuse to just let Hillary win and at least even if I read you wrong that’s how I feel. So far, not perfect, but a lot better than Hillary would have been and a lot of the problem is due to the resistance, not just from Democrats, but from supposed Republicans who, when FINALLY given the chance to keep their promises, ran the other direction.

    If I get the other side – and there is some evidence which back it, unfortunately – Trump could still do some damage and might be inclined to do so due to his past demonstrated socialist/liberal tendencies. Now while I have to admit that’s true, unlike climate change, it’s sort of using what MIGHT happen (but might not) to take ill-advised actions to try and head it off without really knowing it’s going to happen. And, as with climate change, I prefer to wait until we see what is going to happen FOR SURE before taking measures against it, because predicting the future is still a fantasy at this point and you don’t know if you’re actions will really be necessary or just a waste of time, effort and resources.

  • You know, Trump and I have something in common, it seems. You either love us to death and stick with us to the end, no matter what, or you hate us with a passion and blow even small things out of context and proportion.

    It seems KirklesWorth feels you’re in that latter group with Trump, taking any small thing that might turn into a legitimate reason to criticize him, even if it isn’t one yet but just might become one, into a huge brouhaha. This, to him, justifies bringing up things you apparently said during the election, which may have included a belief that it would be better to elect Hillary, or at least allow her to win, than Trump. You may or may not recall I felt that was a strategy that was well beyond the border into insanity, but I just wasn’t going to go where KirklesWorth did (and still does) expressing that view. Maybe we need people like KirklesWorth doing what they do (and the anti-KirklesWorth as well – that would be you or people like you), at least during the election – but I don’t see what good it’s doing now. Now is time to heal, present a united front, push forward hard and not squander this UNPRECEDENTED opportunity to roll back socialist/liberal/Democrat actions which are destroying our nation from within and turning us into a bunch of bickering whiners.

    But with regard to Trump going where he should not go – I think it’s healthy to have people watching out and testing out the alarm now and then, in reasonable fashion, mind you. But I guess the two of you got into it so deep during the election that the aftershocks are still coming. Once either or both decides it’s pointless now and the correct path is towards unity, things will get better. Until then it’s still going to take some time to get past it and put it in the past. The quickest route would be for either to decide to ignore the nonsense and be either neutral or positive in return, but since I don’t know how well I’d be able to do that or how long I’d be able to keep it up…

    I actually may have made things worse by mentioning it. Should have let things be and instead I seem to have stirred the pot a bit.

  • KirklesWorth

    Don’t take any blame on this. If anything, Torcer skipped the other day because of you and hasn’t started anything up today, so I’d call your comments a success.

    There is no “side” you have to get on. Torcer and I are in sync except for Trump supporters defeating Hillary. The main person who has commented on Torcer’s Trump criticism is you.

  • Torcer

    Back during the primary season, there were many a Leftist that wanted Trump to be the nominee. It most likely found these references but most likely hasn’t posted them for obvious reasons.
    Consider that this situation would be perfect opportunity for the Left to attack Conservatives under a false pretense. Also consider that there are those who are extremely careful in what they reveal and whether they engage in debate.

    @Bodhisattva I actually may have made things worse by mentioning it. Should have let things be and instead I seem to have stirred the pot a bit.

    Perhaps you should have made a full and unbiased assessment of the situation before intervening.

    But now that I’ve demonstrated that it is the aggressor in these circumstances, am I allowed to defend myself from it’s projection, vitriol, double standards and falsehoods?
    Put yourself in my and other people’s place on this site.
    Can we reply to it’s incessant attacks?

    At one point you asked it’s objectives and no answer was forthcoming. Doesn’t that give you pause?
    Ask yourself why is it incapable of a rational and civil debate over current issues?
    Why has it adopted the Leftist tactic of accusing others of what it is doing?
    Why is it incapable of answering questions directly?

    Why does it need to use circular logic in it’s assertions?

    BTW, did you condemn it’s attack against me whilst I remained silent aside from documenting these attacks?

    Update: And of course it has to chime into the conversation with another one it’s long confusing screeds that did nothing to address the points that were raised attacking with an accusation of what it has been doing the past few days.

    But Let’s see how long it can restrain himself/herself from another attacking whilst I was trying to ignore it…

    And it takes a certain mindset to try and dictate the place and manner of everyone’s free-speech rights.

  • Torcer

    The main proviso on that kind of tax is that the income tax has to be abolished [Along with the concept of Socialism.. but that’s another story]. Someone made the comparison of a consumption tax to tapping into a fire hose – it would unleash a great deal of revenue and would have the opposite intended effect if the income tax were to remain in place.

  • KirklesWorth

    Let’s see how long @torcer:disqus can restrain himself/herself from starting a new attack thread against me. What Torcer is trying to suppress is his/her long record of attacks against conservative Trump supporters, and attacked them again this month. September consisted of an evolving system of repetative lies and tactics.

    [1] Torcer starts up another new attack thread – although he/she was too afraid to name names and provide excerpts for the last ones. The attack threads for September 2017 were: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017
    [2] Changing tactics from referring to me as the deragory pronoun “it”, Torcer lies that I am an originator of attacks against conservatives over and over (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14) making Joseph Goebbels and Saul Alinsky proud with laughable “proof” of step [4] below.
    [3] This double-lie is easily disproven by quoting Torcer initiating attacks against conservative Trump supporters by saying “Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?”. TrojanMan recognized this attack with “Here we go again… LOL”. This demonstrates Torcer‘s contempt for Trump conservatives by calling them a “cult following” who made a “mistake” defeating Hillary, much to Torcer‘s chagrin (see step [5]).
    [4] It is revealed how ridiculous Torcer is by stating that daring to ask Torcer something as tame as “What ‘mistake’? Not letting Hillary win?” somehow constitutes becoming the “originator of attacks against conservativeS (note the plural “s” to add exaggerated goodness).
    [5] Torcer gets reminded that I defend those who saved the country from Hillary and her lackeys like Torcer and provide the evidence just like on this comment.

  • Anonymous
  • Indeed – and the problem, at least if the Democrats get their way, would be to ADD a consumption tax ON TOP OF existing taxes.

  • I think you misread me. Of course you are allowed to defend yourself if you feel you must. But in doing so consider that you also may be damaging yourself. From where I sit, both of you are not only harming yourselves by continuing this, you’re not really hurting the other AND you’re creating a spectacle that could reflect badly on others like yourselves.

    But by all means, if you think he’s doing you some damage that needs response, respond. I never said you shouldn’t, from that point of view. I just don’t believe he’s doing much other than beating a dead horse and while I might have responded for a while, by now I would have just let him continue beating that dead horse until it’s bones turned to powder. Unless you realize you’re both hurting yourselves dragging this on and on and really not hurting the other much if at all. For your responses to him are pretty much another dead horse being pounded into dust at this point.

    I am not sure anyone really cares who started it or who is the aggressor at this point. I know you both point at the other and only one of you can be right, but only you two care. You guys have an interested audience of 2.

  • Oh we all remember those leftists who were rooting for Trump to win the Republican nomination and the main reason they wanted him to win. It wasn’t his proven liberal track record. It was the fact they were CERTAIN he would be easy to beat, easier than pretty much anyone else running except perhaps JEB! And it was clear to all JEB! never had a chance. Seriously though, I often asked myself why anyone would be insane enough to run a Clinton or a Bush. That’s a thought… had it come down to Clinton v. Bush I wonder if a third party candidate actually might have had a chance?

  • Well then maybe everyone should realize they’re on the same side and start working together.

    And no, I don’t mean let’s all hold hands and sing KUMBAYA or anything, but we have an opportunity to get moving with ideas that might actually have a chance to get implemented IF we can manage to do so before our idiot Republican Congress loses majorities in one or both houses.

  • KirklesWorth

    Funny how you think people are obligated to do what you require of them. Making “full and unbiased assessments”, answering your loaded questions, etc..

    This is what you cite that I am “the aggressor in these circumstances”:

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”? You know they’re just waiting to say it.
    Torcer: Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?
    TrojanMan Here we go again… LOL
    KirklesWorth: What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    Not only does it demonstrate that you are the instigator of attacks against Trump supporting conservatives, it demonstrates how desperate you are to demonize me using the tamest of tame questions.

    But now that I’ve demonstrated that it is the aggressor in these circumstances, am I allowed to defend myself from it’s projection, vitriol, double standards and falsehoods?

    Boo hoo! You haven’t “demonstrated” squat. Hey, here’s an idea – why don’t you stop lying about me and attacking the patriots who defeated Hillary (unlike you) and then maybe I won’t have to correct you.

    Can we reply to it’s incessant attacks?

    Boo hoo! The “incessant attacks” are yours and have been instigated thusly: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017

    At one point you asked it’s objectives and no answer was forthcoming.

    Another lie. I responded:

    KirklesWorth►Bodhisattva: (09/28/2017) I am defending Trump supporters and subsequent conservetives therein from anti-Trumpers and Hillary lackeys. My M.O. before the election was to defeat Hillary. Now conservatives can hold his feet to the fire and I will cheer them on – but don’t say that defeating Hillary was a “mistake” or that Trump supporters are wrong for doing what they had to do.

    Ask yourself why is it incapable of a rational and civil debate over current issues?

    And yet you keep calling me by the derogatory pronoun “it” – some “civility”. You just called me “it” 11 times in your post.

    Why has it adopted the Leftist tactic of accusing others of what it is doing?

    You keep making accusations without citations, links, evidence, proofs, etc.. I, however, fully document my claims about you.

    Why is it incapable of answering questions directly?

    Please demonstrate how am I obligated to respond to your uncited loaded questions.

    Why does it need to use circular logic in it’s assertions?

    The projected circular logic is yours. I have been steadfast in my defense of Trump supporters against progressives and some so-called “conservatives” who would surrender to Hillary.

    BTW, did you condemn it’s attack against me whilst I remained silent aside from documenting these attacks?

    LOL! “Silent”! “Attacks”! What a drama queen! You can’t dispute the truth – especially when it is backed up with excerpty-goodness.

  • Torcer

    Bodhisattva I think you misread me.

    Then what did you mean when you said:

    Bodhisattva Since neither Torcer nor Kirklesworth will be the adult and let the other rant on like a child and just ignore them,

    Bodhisattva Of course you are allowed to defend yourself if you feel you must. But in doing so consider that you also may be damaging yourself.

    And how is that the case?
    Isn’t far more damaging to allow someone to spew lies days after day?
    Put yourself in my place – would you want to defend yourself having someone besmirch your reputation day after day after day?

    Bodhisattva I am not sure anyone really cares who started it or who is the aggressor at this point.

    Why are you reluctant to see the truth of this matter?
    Are you afraid of incurring it’s wrath?

  • Torcer

    That was part of it but recall these items:

    Reid: ‘I’m kind of pulling’ for Trump
    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/267229-reid-im-kind-of-pulling-for-trump
    01/27/16

    Liberal Writer: Don’t Worry, Trump’s A Liberal
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/05/liberal-writer-dont-worry-trumps-a-liberal/
    02/05/2016

    Jimmy Carter: I’d pick Trump over Cruz http://politi.co/1VNEg5o
    02/03/2016

    Reid praises Trump for being ‘authentic’
    By Rebecca Savransky – 02/11/16 08:35 PM EST
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/269202-reid-praises-trump-for-being-authentic

  • KirklesWorth

    You are right – which is why I’ve got my latest response all prepped and ready for the next time you start a new attack thread. This is how it goes:

    Torcer has a long history of attacking conservative Trump supporters and attacked them again on 09/07/2017 (below) as a “cult following” who made a “mistake” defeating Hillary:

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”? You know they’re just waiting to say it.
    Torcer: Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?
    TrojanMan: Here we go again… LOL
    KirklesWorth: What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    This demonstrates Torcer‘s two part lie, for I am not the “originator of attacks against conservatives” when (1) I didn’t attack conservatives – Torcer did, and (2) Torcer was the originator recently (above) as well as in the past. Apparently, having the audacity to ask What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win? of Torcer is laughably an “attack”. Having been called out on his/her attack on Trump conservatives, Torcer is desperately trying to cover up his/her history by distractively accusing me of what he/she is guilty of: Torcer claims there are other “attacks” by me but won’t cite them because of my demonstration that he/she was a Hillary lackey.

    Here are Torcer’s desperate attempts to cover his/her tracks and transfer the malice on to me by calling me “the originator of attacks against conservatives” (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23) and variations on that theme.

    Here are the attack threads for September 2017 that torcer started against me: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017

    Here are the hypocritical cries for me to stop – keeping in consideration the attack threads Torcer started above:

    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Some of us are busying creating lesson plans and writing papers, and we don’t have time to waste arguing minutia.
    Torcer: Don’t you have anything better to do?
    Torcer: Same here, I do have some curiosity in trying figure it out, but as they say I have much bigger fish to fry:
    Torcer: Now, are we done with this incessant waste of time?

  • Torcer

    KirklesWorth
    You are right – which is why I’ve got my latest response all prepped and ready for the next time you start a new attack thread. This is how it goes:

    Torcer has a long history of attacking conservative Trump supporters and attacked them again on 09/07/2017 (below) as a “cult following” who made a “mistake” defeating Hillary:

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”? You know they’re just waiting to say it.
    Torcer: Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?
    TrojanMan Here we go again… LOL
    KirklesWorth: What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    This demonstrates Torcer’s two part lie, for I am not the “originator of attacks against conservatives” when (1) I didn’t attack conservatives – Torcer did, and (2) Torcer was the originator recently (above) as well as in the past. Apparently, having the audacity to ask What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win? of Torcer is laughably an “attack”. Having been called out on his/her attack on Trump conservatives, Torcer is desperately trying to cover up his/her history by distractively accusing me of what he/she is guilty of: Torcer claims there are other “attacks” by me but won’t cite them because of my demonstration that he/she was a Hillary lackey.

    Here are Torcer’s desperate attempts to cover his/her tracks and transfer the malice on to me by calling me “the originator of attacks against conservatives” (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 and variations on that theme.

    Here are the attack threads for September 2017 that torcer started against me: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017

    Here are the hypocritical cries for me to stop – keeping in consideration the attack threads Torcer started above:

    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Why do you waste everyone’s time with these endless attacks?
    Torcer: Some of us are busying creating lesson plans and writing papers, and we don’t have time to waste arguing minutia.
    Torcer: Don’t you have anything better to do?
    Torcer: Same here, I do have some curiosity in trying figure it out, but as they say I have much bigger fish to fry:
    Torcer: Now, are we done with this incessant waste of time?
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3548926603

  • Torcer

    KirklesWorth

    Funny how you think people are obligated to do what you require of them. Making “full and unbiased assessments”, answering your loaded questions, etc..

    This is what you cite that I am “the aggressor in these circumstances”:

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”? You know they’re just waiting to say it.
    Torcer: Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?
    TrojanMan Here we go again… LOL
    KirklesWorth: What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    Not only does it demonstrate that you are the instigator of attacks against Trump supporting conservatives, it demonstrates how desperate you are to demonize me using the tamest of tame questions.

    But now that I’ve demonstrated that it is the aggressor in these circumstances, am I allowed to defend myself from it’s projection, vitriol, double standards and falsehoods?

    Boo hoo! You haven’t “demonstrated” squat. Hey, here’s an idea – why don’t you stop lying about me and attacking the patriots who defeated Hillary (unlike you) and then maybe I won’t have to correct you.

    Can we reply to it’s incessant attacks?

    Boo hoo! The “incessant attacks” are yours and have been instigated thusly: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017

    At one point you asked it’s objectives and no answer was forthcoming.

    Another lie. I responded:

    KirklesWorth►Bodhisattva: (09/28/2017) I am defending Trump supporters and subsequent conservetives therein from anti-Trumpers and Hillary lackeys. My M.O. before the election was to defeat Hillary. Now conservatives can hold his feet to the fire and I will cheer them on – but don’t say that defeating Hillary was a “mistake” or that Trump supporters are wrong for doing what they had to do.

    Ask yourself why is it incapable of a rational and civil debate over current issues?

    And yet you keep calling me by the derogatory pronoun “it” – some “civility”. You just called me “it” 11 times in your post.

    Why has it adopted the Leftist tactic of accusing others of what it is doing?

    You keep making accusations without citations, links, evidence, proofs, etc.. I, however, fully document my claims about you.

    Why is it incapable of answering questions directly?

    Please demonstrate how am I obligated to respond to your uncited loaded questions.

    Why does it need to use circular logic in it’s assertions?

    The projected circular logic is yours. I have been steadfast in my defense of Trump supporters against progressives and some so-called “conservatives” who would surrender to Hillary.

    BTW, did you condemn it’s attack against me whilst I remained silent aside from documenting these attacks?

    LOL! “Silent”! “Attacks”! What a drama queen! You can’t dispute the truth – especially when it is backed up with excerpty-goodness.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3546378209

  • Torcer

    KirklesWorth

    Let’s see how long Torcer can restrain himself/herself from starting a new attack thread against me. What Torcer is trying to suppress is his/her long record of attacks against conservative Trump supporters, and attacked them again this month. September consisted of an evolving system of repetative lies and tactics.

    [1] Torcer starts up another new attack thread – although he/she was too afraid to name names and provide excerpts for the last ones. The attack threads for September 2017 were: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017, 18. 09/28/2017, 19. 09/29.2017
    [2] Changing tactics from referring to me as the deragory pronoun “it”, Torcer lies that I am an originator of attacks against conservatives over and over (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14) making Joseph Goebbels and Saul Alinsky proud with laughable “proof” of step [4] below.
    [3] This double-lie is easily disproven by quoting Torcer initiating attacks against conservative Trump supporters by saying “Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?”. TrojanMan recognized this attack with “Here we go again… LOL”. This demonstrates Torcer’s contempt for Trump conservatives by calling them a “cult following” who made a “mistake” defeating Hillary, much to Torcer’s chagrin (see step [5]).
    [4] It is revealed how ridiculous Torcer is by stating that daring to ask Torcer something as tame as “What ‘mistake’? Not letting Hillary win?” somehow constitutes becoming the “originator of attacks against conservativeS” (note the plural “s” to add exaggerated goodness).
    [5] Torcer gets reminded that I defend those who saved the country from Hillary and her lackeys like Torcer and provide the evidence just like on this comment.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3545787836

  • Torcer

    KirklesWorth
    “Launching three attacks” LOL! Oh please, I would never take your title away of “originator of attacks on conservatives”. You earned it fair and square. And if you want to get a real feel for our differences, you can peruse Torcer’s 2016 election swan song of “We tried to inform you” trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers. But for now, here was your first attack (within September of 2017):

    Torcer►geeknerd: (09/07/2017) Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?

    You attacked conservative Trump supporters and called them a “cult following” that made a “mistake” defeating Hillary. And when I dared to ask…

    KirklesWorth►Torcer: (09/08/2017) What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    …you claimed that question was an “example” of how I am a so-called “originator of attacks against conservatives” (such delicate snowflake sensibilities) when you hold that title and I did no such thing. You lied about it 20 times in one day. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

    What I did is call you a poll-spouting Hillary-helping so-called “conservative” who had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary who was trying to shake your obvious history of zeal to get Trump defeated for Hillary and that I don’t suffer Hillary lackeys gladly. Plus I reposted other people’s comments about your anti-Trump / pro-Hillary tendencies and pointed out your polls-obsession to try and get people to allow a Hillary presidency because that’s what you wanted. And to prove my contention, I posted:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    ● Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    ● Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

    Update:

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/30/2017) Update: True to form, another assault was launched after this was posted:

    LOL! “Assault”! It’s called the truth with references.

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/30/2017) I endeavour to keep my posts as straightforward and succinct as possible.

    LOL! What a crock! You “succinctly” duplicate my posts, initiated attack threads to try and abandon context and the things you are unable to answer 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017,
    18. 09/28/2017

    And when I tried to sync the conversation 15 times (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15)
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88350#comment-3544199328

  • Torcer

    Are you going to respond to my questions, or are you letting it speak for you?

  • KirklesWorth

    Attempting your schoolyard taunting tactics on @Bodhisattva:disqus I see. Not quite as desperate as your other post (below). This looks like an attack on an old thread to me – I guess you’ve painted yourself into a corner. Nevertheless, I was never asked nor is there any need to speak for Bodhisattva. But since I live rent-free in your head, I will make sure to keep you honest.

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (10/03/2017) Isn’t far more damaging to allow someone to spew lies days after day? Put yourself in my place – would you want to defend yourself having someone besmirch your reputation day after day after day? Why are you reluctant to see the truth of this matter? Are you afraid of incurring it’s wrath?

  • KirklesWorth

    Derogative pronoun “it” usage: [18]

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (10/01/2017) Back during the primary season, there were many a Leftist that wanted Trump to be the nominee. It [1] most likely found these references but most likely hasn’t posted them for obvious reasons. Consider that this situation would be perfect opportunity for the Left to attack Conservatives under a false pretense. Also consider that there are those who are extremely careful in what they reveal and whether they engage in debate. Bodhisattva: I actually may have made things worse by mentioning it. Should have let things be and instead I seem to have stirred the pot a bit. Torcer: Perhaps you should have made a full and unbiased assessment of the situation before intervening. But now that I’ve demonstrated that it [2] is the aggressor in these circumstances, am I allowed to defend myself from it’s [3] projection, vitriol, double standards and falsehoods? Put yourself in my and other people’s place on this site. Can we reply to it’s [4] incessant attacks? At one point you asked it’s [5] objectives and no answer was forthcoming. Doesn’t that give you pause? Ask yourself why is it [6] incapable of a rational and civil debate over current issues? Why has it [7] adopted the Leftist tactic of accusing others of what it [8] is doing? Why is it [9] incapable of answering questions directly? Why does it [10] need to use circular logic in it’s [11] assertions? BTW, did you condemn it’s [12] attack against me whilst I remained silent aside from documenting these attacks? Update: And of course it [13] has to chime into the conversation with another one it’s [14] long confusing screeds that did nothing to address the points that were raised attacking with an accusation of what it [15] has been doing the past few days. But Let’s see how long it [16] can restrain himself/herself from another attacking whilst I was trying to ignore it [17] … And it [18] takes a certain mindset to try and dictate the place and manner of everyone’s free-speech rights.

  • As stated, you guys have an interested audience of 2, yourselves.

    That said, I thought (I thought I made it clear I don’t have much time or interest in constant bickering or answering questions related to constant bickering, though I do try to get to any post that deserves a response when time permits.) I was answering any legitimate questions and even a few not so legitimate questions.

    If I haven’t yet, either I will when time permits or they weren’t worth my time to answer.

  • Torcer

    Actually I have much better things to do that have to deal it it’s lies such as the following where it made declarative statement based on information IT Does not have:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fcb701685bb7ed906c0393b2d7ed7b0d70cd557d8106d0197ec32e6e3c4c1c1b.jpg

    KirklesWorth

    Well stated. Here is some background keeping in mind that Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary:
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88560#comment-3552515243

    And I try to ignore it as much as possible, but I did want to point out the differences between us.

    That aside, I see it’s mendacity as a very disturbing trend in this country. It clearly has no moral grounding and it is perfectly willing to accuse other what it does on a regular basis.

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