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Mar 29 2012

Zimmerman Not Bloody Enough to Suit Liberal Media

The liberal lynch mob proclaims that George Zimmerman didn’t look sufficiently bloody after emergency crews had cleaned him up following his assault by Trayvon Martin. They must have missed this:

zimmerman-gash

As for what Zimmerman would have looked like afterward if he hadn’t been armed, the regrettably unarmed Carter Strange provides a clue:

carter strange

But then Strange lived. The media’s little angel Trayvon allegedly stated his intent to kill Zimmerman.

On tips from Don M, J, and Bob Roberts.



104 Responses to “Zimmerman Not Bloody Enough to Suit Liberal Media”

  1. J says:

    Second Eyewitness Saw Zimmerman On The Ground “Moaning And Crying For Help Seconds Before Shooting”…

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/03/29/second-eyewitness-saw-zimmerman-on-the-ground-moaning-and-crying-for-help-seconds-before-shooting/

  2. J says:

    Second Saint Trayvon Twitter Account: “Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!”

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/03/29/second-saint-trayvon-twitter-account-plzz-shoot-da-mf-dat-lied-2-u/

  3. StanInTexas says:

    Liberals want us all to think that, since Trayvon did not have a weapon with him, that he was “UNARMED”.

    People have been severely beaten, crippled, or killed by an assailant just using their hands. There is not way to tell how much damage would have been done to Mr. Zimmerman if he had not stopped the attack.

  4. J says:

    Trayvon Martin Sympathizer Arrested After Threatening to Hunt Down Police Chief & His Family “Like a Dog”

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-sympathizer-arrested-after-threatening-to-hunt-down-police-chief-his-family-like-a-dog/

  5. Dupree says:

    Very interesting how the “ABC exclusive” banner is covering the injured area of his head for most of the video. Also, I’ve never seen a surveillance camera shake and pan like it’s being held by someone. Aren’t Surveillance cameras usually bolted to the wall? I believe there may have been some selective editing here.

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/#comment-479522082

  6. J says:

    Trayvon ‘Tribute’ Video: ‘F*ck Protesting…Start a Riot’

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/03/29/Trayvon-Rap-Video

  7. SR says:

    Trayvon Martin Sympathizer Arrested After Threatening to Hunt Down Police Chief & His Family “Like a Dog”

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-sympathizer-arrested-after-threatening-to-hunt-down-police-chief-his-family-like-a-dog/

  8. J says:

    Boston Globe Columnist Perpetuates ‘White’ Zimmerman Lie

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/29/Mac-Martin-Boston-Globe

  9. metalgarth says:

    “It’s just a flesh wound!!!”

  10. StanInTexas says:

    It is amazing how all Liberals INSTANTLY have a medical degree when cases like this come up.

    Everyone remember that young black man that was beaten at a Tea party event by the SEIU thugs. The one consistent thing we heard from the Liberals was “He doesn’t LOOK hurt, therefore he is LYING!!!!!”

    Amazing!

  11. lao says:

    I remember that Kenneth Gladney, SEIU case.

    Charges were laid, a trail was conducted and the verdict was NOT GUILTY.

  12. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    So let’s identify Roseanne Barr is communist then. A minion, tovarisch, a functionary, a high officer in the Leftist Propaganda Corps.

    You pick your fate, fatass disgusting bitch.

  13. lao says:

    er..trial

  14. Beef says:

    J says:
    Latino organizations dismiss George Zimmerman, question his ethnicity

    I bet if he had won a Nobel prize, he’d be Latino enough.

  15. Joe says:

    “Sheila Jackson Lee Speculates That George Zimmerman Broke His Own Nose”

    I speculate trayvon shot himself. Two can play that fucking stupid game, slut.

  16. StanInTexas says:

    Not the point, Lao.

    It was Liberals who decided he was lying by looking at him; in the same manner they are doing here.

    Neither can be defended, but I’m sure you’ll try!

  17. Clingtomyguns says:

    Zimmerman is guilty of no crime under Florida law for defending his own live, although Spike Lee very well may be for his Twitters to incite killing Zimmerman:

    Florida Penal Stat. 776.002 –

    … However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html

    836.10 Written threats to kill or do bodily injury; punishment.— Any person who writes or composes and also sends or procures the sending of any letter, inscribed communication, or electronic communication, whether such letter or communication be signed or anonymous, to any person, containing a threat to kill or to do bodily injury to the person to whom such letter or communication is sent, or a threat to kill or do bodily injury to any member of the family of the person to whom such letter or communication is sent commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 6503, 1913; RGS 5094; CGL 7196; s. 995, ch. 71-136; s. 1, ch. 2010-51.

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0836/Sections/0836.10.html

    836.11 Publications which tend to expose persons to hatred, contempt, or ridicule prohibited.—(1) It shall be unlawful to print, publish, distribute or cause to be printed, published or distributed by any means, or in any manner whatsoever, any publication, handbill, dodger, circular, booklet, pamphlet, leaflet, card, sticker, periodical, literature, paper or other printed material which tends to expose any individual or any religious group to hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy unless the following is clearly printed or written thereon:
    (a) The true name and post office address of the person, firm, partnership, corporation or organization causing the same to be printed, published or distributed; and,
    (b) If such name is that of a firm, corporation or organization, the name and post office address of the individual acting in its behalf in causing such printing, publication or distribution.
    (2) Any person, firm or corporation violating any of the sections of this statute shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 22744, 1945; s. 996, ch. 71-136.

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0836/Sections/0836.11.html

  18. StanInTexas says:

    Beef,

    Hispanic or Latino are races, but only when their race can be used to further a political agenda. Had Zimmerman been the one who was shot, there is no question that he would be a Hispanic or Latino.

  19. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    Re: Sheitla Jackson-Lee Logic

    Good one Joe, but St. Skittles committed suicide because he couldn’t bear to live in a world of whitey racism.

    You can’t win arguing with committed communists. Tyranny has nothing to do with fairness or logic.

    Beelzelao teaches us that. He might stop if certain well-intentioned folks stopped conjuring up the evil in every single thread.

  20. -Sepp says:

    I’m already sick of hearing the word “trayvon” (stupid name btw).
    If he’d killed Zimmermann instead, we’d have never heard of him.

    There were some 60 shootings in Toledo last summer that were black on black crimes by mostly teens…meanwhile the local black “leader’s” have nothing to say other than to complain about them “shooting our own” as if shooting other races is acceptable.

    The ONLY reason this trayvon drama has grabbed attention is because the media has painted Zimmermann white in order to sell the story and agitate a black populace who NEVER cares any other time a black kid is shot.
    It seems that they don’t care how many black kids are shot…they only care about what color the shooter is.
    White shooter = outrage
    Black shooter = nothing to see here…bizniz as usual.

    If white people dropped everything to protest every black crime against a white person, they’d have to protest in shifts.

    Was Zimmermann wrong? I’m not 100% sure.
    I DO know that if anyone popped up and sucker-punched me in the dark and began assaulting me, they’d be shot too.
    Gee whiz…they 6’+ tall clown that is assaulting me might be a 17 year old misunderstood teenager…I’d better let him finnish me off to avoid the media slandering me later on!
    According to the media and racist blacks, thats what you’re supposed to do if you’re white.

  21. Drury says:

    Clingtomyguns says:
    March 29, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Zimmerman is guilty of no crime under Florida law for defending his own live, although Spike Lee very well may be for his Twitters to incite killing Zimmerman:

    NOTHING will happen to the racist Spike Lee as he is a member of the protected race. If only I were King, he would be stripped of citizenship and forcibly air-dropped over Liberia.

  22. Jimbo says:

    Kill Zimmerman. Kill Zimmerman’s parents. Kill whitey.

    Wow. Can’t you just feel the liberal peace and love?

    Damned worthless stinking lying hypocrite communist liberal bastards.

    War. That’s what the pussies want.

  23. Drury says:

    StanInTexas says:
    March 29, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Hispanic or Latino are races, but only when their race can be used to further a political agenda. Had Zimmerman been the one who was shot, there is no question that he would be a Hispanic or Latino.

    Stan,

    HBD/race realists have already documented that FBI crime statistics are written up and published in such a way that “Latino/Hispanics” are a separate category when reported as *victims*, BUT that category vanishes when *perpetrators* are identified. THEN, all of a sudden they are lumped in under the “White” category.

    Just more lies and propaganda emanating from your federal government overlords to make things appear not quite like reality.

  24. Beef says:

    Hail The Amberlamps! says:
    Good one Joe, but St. Skittles committed suicide because he couldn’t bear to live in a world of whitey racism
    ———–

    Obamweh gave us his only Son, No Limit Nigga of Nazareth, to show why he needs to be re-elected.

    I am truly sorry another 17 year kid is dead. There is something wrong with a society where so many young lives end this way. But using this boy’s body to further your agenda, oblivious to the the facts and the consequences to the accused and his family, is truly sick and pathetic. I am sure that this Media Hate Frenzy is going to get quite a number more people killed, all while obscuring the real reasons for the tragedy in the first place.

  25. Dupree says:

    Where are the calls for civility from the Left?

  26. Ghost of FA Hayek says:

    The Demmohroids have had the milk machine on this thing from day one.
    Now the unit has fallen into the gutter, manure being drawn into, and mixed with the milk.
    And yet they are desperately trying to reattach it for a few remaining drops

  27. Doug says:

    War. That’s what the pussies want.

    Can’t wait to see lao foam at the mouth over this.

  28. RICH says:

    Zimmerman was treated at the scene. What, no bandage for his head wound? Where is the broken nose? I see no blood on his shirt. Ever have your nose broken? It’s a bloody mess, not unlike a crime scene.

  29. Dupree says:

    Rich, ever consider that perhaps his clothes were changed. Assuming that Zimmerman was on the ground with Martin over him when Martin was shot, as the story goes, would not Martin’s blood be all over Zimmerman as well?

  30. Doug says:

    Yeah, and according to RICH, Zimmerman is going into the police station for a little party with the officers to celebrate another notch in the gun handle.

    Stupid dumbass.

  31. Ghost of FA Hayek says:

    Any evidence here is still locked away somewhere.
    Zimmerman’s lawyer stated that HE has not even seen it yet.\
    This is on account of the fact that he has not yet to date been charged with any crime.

    So now is the time for Democrat and leftist media jury tampering

  32. RICH says:

    No Dupree, it’s not police protocol to allow someone to shower, change their clothes and freshen up after a killing before bring them to the station for the interrogation process. It doesn’t work that way.

  33. StanInTexas says:

    Rich, when did you receive your medical degree? How long did you work in emergency medicine? And how long did you spend reviewing Zimmerman’s injuries and his medical records?

  34. StanInTexas says:

    Rich, you are not up to speed on the latest Liberal story.

    See, Zimmerman was never taken to the police station and was never interrogated. He was congratulated at the scene by the officers who gave him a new box of bullets and a medal for killing a black kid. 😉

    Do try to keep up!

  35. Dupree says:

    As are all angles on this story until the facts come out, mine is mere conjecture. But since you are so certain, yours must be true, right RICH? So RICH, tell us all, for the record, how does it work?

  36. AC says:

    No, but it is EMS procedure to clean biohazardous blood from an assault victim before releasing him.

    There are different degrees to which a nose can be broken. Not every broken nose is shattered into a thousand pieces.

  37. RICH says:

    Let me clarify. Do I think Martin was a dirty filthy criminal? Yes. But from the evidence I have seen, and judging by the totality of circumstances immediately surrounding this incident, I see no justification for the use of deadly force here.

    Also, neighborhood watch means watch. Over zealous wanna be cops who don’t know what the hell they are doing get themselves and others killed.

    Stan, I have no medical degree, but for the record, I’m a former federal LE officer and certified instructor in the use of force and law enforcement tactics, if that means anything. Perhaps this is why I am taking such a hard-lined stance on this issue.

    Was Trayvon Martin a troubled teenager? Yes. Did he look suspicious? Yes. Was he being chased by Zimmerman? Yes. Was there a confrontation? Yes. Did Zimmerman weigh approximately 100 lbs more than Martin? Yes. Was Martin unarmed? Yes. Did any of these factors suggest that Zimmerman’s use of deadly force was justified? No.

    I’m all for gun rights and self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman was a vigilante who chased, confronted, and killed an individual for commiting the grave crime of looking suspicious. Even the lead investigator wanted to arrest Zimmerman for man slaughter. Zimmerman’s father is a retired magistrate judge who may have used his influence to get criminal cases against his son dropped.

    I do not believe that Zimmerman was justified in this shooting. He would most likely lose in a criminal trial, despite Martins troubled history.

    That’s my opinion. You can all unbunch your panties now.

  38. Doug says:

    [channeling RICH]

    I SAID UNBUNCH YOUR PANTIES NOW!!!!!!!

  39. AC says:

    Rich, what does your LE training tell you about situations in which an assailant knocks a victim down to the ground and climbs on top of him?

    Such a victim is at a huge disadvantage. This is a highly prone position which allows attackers to smash your head, strangle you, or slit your throat, and without the necessary leverage you can’t do much about it.

    Smashing somebody’s head into concrete can result in instant, disabling unconsciousness, or a lethal internal bleed.

    Zimmerman reports that Trayvon reached for his weapon.

    Suppose you responded to a call in which a victim had his nose broken and his head smashed into the pavement by an attacker who knocked him down and climbed on top of him.

    Would you file a charge of simple, misdemeanor assault or felony aggravated assault?

    If Zimmerman had a reasonable belief of aggravated assault, then under Florida law, this is lawful self-defense.

  40. AC says:

    By the way, Trayvon had 7 inches on Zimmmerman.

    Trayvon was an athlete. Zimmerman is fat and out of shape.

  41. AC says:

    I’m all for gun rights and self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman was a vigilante who chased, confronted, and killed an individual for commiting the grave crime of looking suspicious. Even the lead investigator wanted to arrest Zimmerman for man slaughter. Zimmerman’s father is a retired magistrate judge who may have used his influence to get criminal cases against his son dropped.

    Zimmerman had every right to follow Trayvon. He may have been a bit more zealous than the typical citizen, but he was under no duty to retreat and hide in his home. Law enforcement needs people to be good witnesses. Trayvon chose to attack the witness.

    This incident happened in public on a public sidewalk. Zimmerman had just as much right to be on that sidewalk as Trayvon. Florida’s Stand Your Ground law applies anywhere the victim has a right to be.

    There is nothing legally wrong with following a suspicious person around. Granted, it is a bit risky to follow and report on a suspect, which is why police advise against it, however there is no law against making a personal sacrifice for the common good.

    The mere act of keeping your eye on a suspect can chase off prowlers, loitering kids, and would-be thieves. A law-abiding citizen has no problem with a fellow neighbor looking out. If Trayvon wasn’t breaking the law and wasn’t up to anything he wasn’t supposed to be then he could have waved, said hello, and continued to his destination.

  42. StanInTexas says:

    Rich, the part of your statement that destroys your credibility is this… “Was Martin unarmed? Yes.

    BULLSHIT! Martin was armed with his fists, which he was using to beat Zimmerman with. People can be injured, crippled, or killed by a person using their bear hands, and if you were truly as LEO, then YOU WOULD KNOW THAT.

    Stop making excuses for this thug. The more evidence that comes out, the more it looks like Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman was justified.

  43. AC says:

    Trayvon also attempted to arm himself with Zimmerman’s pistol.

  44. RICH says:

    AC, as a civilian, I too would have probably tried to knock someone down who ran after and confronted me. Did Zimmerman identify himself? Who the hell was he?

    For example, under 14USC89, an officer of the law is authorized to search, examine, arrest, seize, inquire, and inspect an individual or their property.

    Under what authority was Zimmerman allowed to inquire, inspect and detain Martin? I’ll answer that for you. No authority. He was simply the neighborhood watch. Even the police rightfully told him to stop his pursuit.

    Zimmerman reports that Trayvon reached for his weapon.

    I would have also tried to grab his weapon, if he pulled it out in front of me. What about you?

    Anyway, that’s where I’m at right now. We’ll see what happens.

  45. StanInTexas says:

    Wait a second Rich.

    Are you telling me that if a person pulled a gun on your, your reaction would be TO GRAB FOR IT????

    You are getting less and less believable!

  46. RICH says:

    Martin was unarmed Stan. An officer in this case would not be authorized to shoot him. Period.

  47. StanInTexas says:

    First, that is CRAP Rich. If an officer was being assaulted by a violent and strong thug, and he was in fear of his life, we would be authorized to use whatever means he had to stop the threat. That INCLUDES his service weapon.

    Second, even if I were to believe you, citizens to not have the same training or level of responsibility as Law Enforcement officers do.

    So your analogy is rejected.

  48. TED says:

    It’s just a LEFT thing.

    After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn’t help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a traumatic brain injury.

    Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah Akbar, still hasn’t stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive: slay as many infidels as possible. So we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.

    But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and a half years later, they still haven’t tried the murderous bastard.

  49. lao says:

    From that all-around source of generic information, Wikipedia:

    On November 12 and December 2, (2009) respectively, Hasan was officially charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, thus making him eligible for the death penalty if convicted.

    On February 2, 2012 a military judge ruled that Hasan will stand trial on June 12, 2012. Lt.Col. Kris Poppe, Hasan’s lead attorney, said the request to delay the trial was “purely a matter of necessity of adequate time for pretrial preparation”. The prosecution is seeking the death penalty.

  50. AC says:

    Zimmerman didn’t run after and confront Trayvon. He made use of public streets and public sidewalks to see what was going on in his neighborhood. America is a free country. He has every right to follow a suspicious person, even though doing so is not the safest of choices, provided he did not do so in a threatening manner. Trayvon had no right to assault a person who was merely making use of public right of ways.

    Zimmerman needed no authority to traverse a public right of way and he also needed no authority to watch someone who was in public view.

    The evidence indicates that the fight broke out prior to the gunshot. Zimmerman did not approach Trayvon and draw on him. Based on the evidence and witness statements, Zimmerman followed Trayvon, at which point Trayvon chose to begin an unlawful assault. That assault progressed to the point where Zimmerman chose to draw to stop the assault.

    Zimmerman did not detain or search Trayvon.

    If someone drew on me for no reason, and they weren’t wearing a badge and uniform, then I would draw on them. Zimmerman did not draw on Trayvon out of the blue.

    Suppose that, as a law enforcement officer, you were called out to this situation, sans gunshot. If you had witnessed an unprovoked assault followed by the assailant jumping on top of the victim and banging his skull against the pavement, would you write it up as simple assault or an aggravated assault?

  51. AC says:

    lao says:

    Your own source acknowledges the ridiculous delay. The traitorous murderer should be on his way to the chair by now. Instead, bleeding heart lawyers are extending the scumbag’s stay on the taxpayer dime.

  52. bazooka joe says:

    the best part of all of this is the damage all the moonbats are doing to themselves. it should now be obvious to the dimmest of wits how this 24 hour “look at me” news cycle will say anything to keep idiots outraged over facts we dont yet have. it seems they wont be happy until they start a racewar. i carry a gen 3 glock 23c everday legally and if i was on my back getting pummeled by a well educated afro american gentleman i would not regret putting him down. no matter how cute he looks in his fourth grade football pictures. no one puts baby in a corner. just gotta wait for the FACTS. remember those? R.I.P whitney

  53. lao says:

    A delay asked for by Hasan’s defense team.

  54. AC says:

    Two and a half years.

  55. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    Zimmerman used deadly force to prevent imminent serious bodily injury or death, he shot to break the threat and lived. That is textbook use of CHL carry. I thank God himself RICH is a former LEO instructor (or lying troll) and no longer instructing officers how to die in a lethal confrontation.

  56. RICH says:

    I just got back and I see some good points have been made.

    “would be authorized to use whatever means he had to stop the threat. That INCLUDES his service weapon.”

    Yes and no. Again, this is where we get into the totality of circumstances. An officer’s presence alone may have been enough to stop any threat. An officer would have used what is known as LEAPS; Listen, Empathise, Ask questions, and Paraphrase. This may have been adequate.

    Prior to using deadly force, there is a ladder an officer must climb before reaching this level.

    Officer presence (uniform, belt with tools), then verbal commands, followed by light force (restraining), hard force (pressure points or pepper spray), intermediary weapons (baton striking soft tissue), and finally deadly force. This is always the last option. Had an officer been present, it most likely would not have reached this level.

    “citizens to not have the same training or level of responsibility as Law Enforcement officers do.”

    I know. That’s why they should leave it to the professionals. They have the tools and the knowledge.

    AC, I’m sure Martin felt that Zimmerman was also acting suspiciously. Chasing after someone isn’t necessarily standing your ground either. But that’s what makes this case so unique. I don’t know exactly what was said or how it went down, so I will refrain from going any further. As always, you bring up some good points. I hope I have as well. I was merely trying to shed some light from a different angle. It will be up to the greatest legal system the world has ever known to seek and achieve justice. Hopefully they get it right.

  57. RICH says:

    Hail The Amberlamps! says: March 29, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Textbook, huh? If you say so, chief.

  58. AC says:

    Zimmerman definitely was a knucklehead in some respects. I listened to the initial 911 phone call, and two of the things which came up from the outset were the suspect’s intoxicated demeanor and his positioning of his hand inside his waistband. That, combined with his age, the hoodie, and the burglaries does equal a suspicious and possibly dangerous person.

    If it were merely an unknown person, not an unknown potential criminal, there is nothing wrong with going up to them, saying hi, and mentioning that you’ve never seen them around the neighborhood before.

    A cop who witnessed Trayvon under those circumstances would have reasonable suspicion to warrant a stop and talk.

    What would I have done? I would have gone in the BOB in my trunk, retreived a scope, and hung back in my vehicle to maintain a visual until the authorities arrived. I don’t want to approach a shady person appearing under the influence, even though I have every right to approach them and speak to them. What Zimmerman did was not smart. Consider the two white British tourists gunned down by the project mope simply for being white on the wrong street.

    HTA is right, based on the available evidence. This is a textbook case of aggravated assault which makes it textbook Stand Your Ground.

    Even without Stand Your Ground’s lack of a duty to retreat, being injured on the ground with an attacker on top of him removed Zimmerman’s ability to retreat.

    I’m in full agreement that Zimmerman should have summed up all the suspicious factors and decided not to approach the suspect. It’s better to stay out of trouble than to need to deal with it.

    That being said, blaming him as killer is wrong, as he is the victim here. He made a poor and tactically unsound choice, albeit one which he had every right to make. That doesn’t mean he is to be summarily punished with grievous bodily harm or death for the mere act of approaching a suspicious character.

    The question if self-defense is not about whether a shooting was the best possible outcome among all outcomes, looking back before the situation began; the question is whether the law is to hold a person morally blameworthy for the choice they had to make.

    Given the aggravated assault on George Zimmerman, he can’t be held blameworthy for needing to halt felonious conduct which Trayvon chose to initiate.

    The reason why I asked twice whether you’d write it up as simple assault or aggravated assault is because of how Florida self-defense law is written. If it’s aggravated assault, then the shooting is justified, provided the shooter has a right to be where they are at and provided the shooter was not engaged in criminal conduct of his own.

    There is one lesson from this we can both agree on: self-defense instructors should use this situation as a real-world example of when to hang back. Regardless of who is legally right or wrong, staying back to be a good witness is tactically sound.

    If Trayvon were walking without a hoodie during the day, and not tucking his hand in his waistband, perhaps an approach and greet would have been the best choice.

    However, blaming Zimmerman for lawfully approaching Trayvon is like blaming a rape victim for wearing a lawful but slutty skirt.

  59. Guest says:

    I believe this photo is a fake, i have watched the video again and again to try and see this and even zoomed in and went to slow-mo. This is a doctored photo

  60. StanInTexas says:

    Rich, the problem with your ladder theory is that all goes right out the window when the subject has a direct confrontation with the officer or citizen. In this case, evidence suggests that Martin followed Zimmerman, initiated the confrontation, and knocked him to the ground, at which time he began assaulting him.

    Whether Zimmerman was a cop or a civilian, he has a right and a duty to defend himself. TWO eyewitnesses have come forward stating that Zimmerman was calling for help and trying to get Martin off of him. That didn’t work and Zimmerman used deadly force to stop the threat on his life.

    If a cop had stopped Martin and said “May I see your identification?”, and then Martin knocked the officer to the ground, began beating him in the head, and tried to get his service weapon, deadly force would be appropriate.

    You do not know if an officer present would have made any difference, and we can do hypotheticals all day. But the more evidence that comes out, the more guilty Martin is. At least for those not blinded by their own partisan agenda.

  61. Gunny G says:

    Hey Lao-hole,

    Talked with my uncle who was an attorney general for a state with about 40 YEARS of trial experience and NO CASE he can remember got a 2.5 YEAR delay.

    Clearly your god Obutthole is putting pressure on the Army to delay and delay and delay. Guess being a religious advisor of Obuttwipe has its privleges.

  62. MGuns says:

    Lao,

    That wiki crap is PURE BS. I was a prisoner chaser and attended MANY MANY courts-martials and NEVER saw such a delay before. This is coming from Obama and Hoodlum Holder.

  63. Festivus says:

    Late to the party here because I was out stimulating the economy, but if you listen carefully to the Zimmerman 911 call, at the beginning you get a faint noise like the windshield wipers are running (it was raining).

    Later, after he says Martin is running away, Zimmerman’s voice definitely changes as if he is a bit winded which I would guess is the point at which he is running after Martin (he says Martin is running away on the tape). Not sure if he’s actually running as I would not have the phone to my ear if I was running, but maybe he’s walking very fast or something along those lines.

    His voice noticeably changes again when the dispatcher tells him they don’t need him to follow him (he says, okay). No longer winded. As if he gave up the chase and started walking back to his vehicle (which is what his side of the story is). Afterward he was confronted from behind by Martin according to Zimmerman.

    Obviously, this is a subjective lay person’s interpretation of that recorded conversation, but if you’re interested in this, I’d suggest you go back and carefully listen to it.

  64. piston honda says:

    Are these people stupid? Who the hell are they to judge the extent of his injuries from a low grade video? Also, was he supposed to wait till his skull was bashed in before he did anything? No one would choose to do that not even their peace loving selves. I heard a local newswoman say this same thing and I started to scream.

  65. RICH says:

    HTA is right

    No, she isn’t right. If the overzealous Zimmerman committed battery or even simple assualt, Martin would also have the right to defend himself. Whoever initiated this confrontation will be a crucial factor. Also, as I pointed out earlier in my argument, I didn’t see any blood in the video. It appears that Guest is correct and that this is a doctored photo.

    Second witness comes forward, indicates Zimmerman was lying on the ground, moaning and crying for help

    No, that’s not in your link. The witness said he saw only one (1) person lying on the ground wearing a red shirt. No mention of moaning or crying, and no mention of being attacked. There was apparently no eye witnesses for the 60 seconds surrounding the shooting.

    instructing officers how to die in a lethal confrontation.

    That’s nice. I’d like to personally demonstrate the use of level 4 on you, right now, bitch. FYI: A physical confrontation, with kicks and punches, does not justify an officers use of deadly force. Nope. Can we shoot a suspect for resisting arrest? Officers get bloodied up in the line of duty. It’s a tough job. Of course HTA would know that with her extensive experience, right?

    Bottom line: Vigilantes and ignorant assholes like HTA will cause us all to lose our second amendment rights.

  66. Festivus says:

    Zimmerman, of course, was not an LEO, so those standards do not apply to him.

    While I’m beginning to think that photo is doctored, the video of him at the police station doesn’t prove anything. He was treated by EMTs at the scene and reportedly saw a doctor the next day. Those are going to be solid witness/expert testimonials one way or the other.

  67. AC says:

    Where is the evidence that Zimmerman’s zeal crossed the line into assault or battery?

    He committed no crime simply by following a person on a public right of way.

  68. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    Problem with anger control there RICH? Ready to “level 4” my bitch ass? You were Federal LEO? Bullcrap.

    Zimmerman was not a police officer. The narrative as it stands would allow Zimmerman (concealed carry licensee, NOT A COP) to use deadly force to break an actor’s use of deadly force against him, be it Florida or Texas….where I live….and have carried concealed for 16 years….and still do just in case assholes impersonating police officers such as yourself want to toss.

  69. AC says:

    Another bottom line: Surrendering the right to stand our ground against forcible felonies undermines the very reason we have Second Amendment rights. What good is the Second Amendment if we become like the Brits who can’t carry, can’t shoot actively hostile felons, and can’t even keep a weapon loaded and unlocked in their own home?

    The purpose of the Second Amendment isn’t to enable collecting firearms in a closet like stamps or butterflies.

    Zimmerman should not have had to give an inch on a public street. He did nothing wrong by following a suspect. His decision was tactically unwise, but that public sidewalk is a place he had a right to be.

    He did not chase Trayvon down to shoot him. People who premeditate their assaults and batteries are not known for calling 911 to bring police to the scene.

    There’s no evidence which points to a Paul Kersey complex at work here. He took a closer look, then a criminal mope launched a savage attack.

  70. Festivus says:

    Was that a public street/sidewalk? It’s been described as a gated community. Not sure what that means in terms of public access but implies that it’s not a public thoroughfare. I don’t think it matters much in the end, but just a point of clarification I would offer up.

    My understanding (unconfirmed) is that Martin was staying with his father at his father’s girlfriend’s/fiancee’s townhome in that very same gated community. He was within a few hundred feet of their residence when this all went down.

    Zimmerman, of course, did not know that Martin was essentially a resident’s live-in guest as Martin been there for a very short time (perhaps only a day).

    Which brings to light that this may amount to a tragic mistake of misunderstanding on both sides. Zimmerman knew there were some burglaries in the “hood”, so to speak, and Martin’s father and GF/Fiancee probably knew about that as well and they may have communicated it to Martin.

  71. AC says:

    Whether the city or the HOA owned it, Zimmerman had a right to be there. Even if it wasn’t city owned, it was public to all members of that community.

    In many Florida gated communities, the sidewalks are technically true public right of ways, even if there is no way to get to them without passing through community security. The same applies to beaches which the public can’t get to without a boat or jetski.

  72. Festivus says:

    AC, I don’t really think it’s important one way or the other. My understanding is that both Zimmerman and Martin had every right to be there which is exactly your point as well.

    It was just a point of clarification in case new facts come out that might suggest that Martin was trespassing (which I don’t think he was based upon my understanding).

  73. AC says:

    Trayvon did have a right to be there as well, under permission from the resident he was visiting. A simple, non-confrontational explanation of that to Zimmerman would have made the problem go away.

    I’ve done neighborhood watches before. The easiest way to move non-residents away is to say hello, mention you haven’t seen them before, and ask them which unit/house is theirs.

    If Trayvon was under the influence at the time that would explain why he lashed out, having felt like he had been “caught” by an adult. Underage drinkers and pot smokers don’t like running into individuals they perceive as authority figures, whether it be a parent, a cop, a professor, an adult, or a store manager who tells them to get the hell out. In their minds, they’re thinking, “Does he know I’m drunk/stoned right now?”

    If he was high and running to the store for some munchies then of course he wanted to get back from his “mission” without running into anybody. It would be a slightly more intense version of the age old sneaking out to make out with the girlfriend.

  74. Dupree says:

    I will repeat what AC has said. The media narrative is that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation / assualt / battery. There is NO EVIDENCE to prove this and what eye witness accounts do exist lean towards the opposite conclusion.

  75. AC says:

    The evidence points to Trayvon being high. Zimmerman saw it and the first witness saw it.

    What’s more, you know who walks to the store in the rain at night to get Skittles and a canned beverage? Stoners. The phenomenon is known as the munchies. This explains why Trayvon become instantly agitated about an adult catching him walking home with Skittles and a canned drink.

    He wanted to get home, eat, and chill out while the buzz still lasted. An encounter with an authority figure totally interrupted his munchies run. There’s nothing suspicious about Skittles and iced tea, so why flip out? I’ll tell you why: he was holding his munchies, he knew they were munchies, and like most minor stoners, he didn’t have enough smoking experience to know when nobody else knows and how to hold it together.

    Being raised on MTV, rap music, and thug culture, his reflexive response to undesired circumstances is aggression, not problem solving. He was on the phone at the time, which is the perfect cover for not conversing with someone. When you’re on the phone, you can move your hand over the microphone, make a quick statement to a distracting person, then continue on your way.

    If he would have covered the mic briefly, said “I’m going home”, pointed in the direction of the house, then gone back to talking to his girlfriend while walking home, none of this would happen.

    What’s more plausible: a stoned thug youth gets interrupted on his munchies run, then lashes out at the adult he encountered, or a guy who called the police over 40 times in the past year calls them one more time, to get them on their way there, so they’ll arrive just as he’s committing a planned assault against an innocent but hungry teen?

  76. Festivus says:

    AC, a lot of presumptions there! lol

    Who knows? It’s impossible to know.

    One of the more interesting things in that 911 call is when Zimmerman says that Martin is walking toward him, “he’s checking me out,” I think he says. This is before Zimmerman follows Martin. Then Martin apparently turns and runs according to the recording.

    I’m surmising that Zimmerman was still in his car at that point. I can’t really draw any conclusions from it, but it is weird Martin would walk towards him when Zimmerman was in his vehicle. I don’t want to say it was aggressive (since he ended up running away), but it’s weird nonetheless.

  77. AC says:

    If you have another scenario which is firmly based on the facts then I’d be curious to hear it. All we can do now is speculate and attempt to reconstruct what happened based on what we know.

    We know he’s a habitual marijuana user and probable dealer. We also know he was a minor (normally apprehensive about being high around adults) who was recently stung with a suspension for drugs, and therefore, nervous about being caught again. We also know he was walking to get candy and a drink, at night, in the rain.

    I think I’m in the ballpark here. I’ve, uh, seen enough munchies runs to know what one looks like.

  78. AC says:

    I’m not sure about the positioning of the parties involved. Even if Trayvon was walking towards Zimmerman it could have been because that was the path he was walking anyway. I don’t know if he changed paths to encounter Zimmerman.

    The confrontation began when Zimmerman attempted to speak with Trayvon and Trayvon chose to lash out with aggressive language and physical battery.

  79. Festivus says:

    The facts, or course, are a little fuzzy. I’ll grant you that. The only public factual evidence available (other than a brief police report) is the 911 call.

    Listen to that carefully. You can hear windshield wipers (although I would entertain any other interpreation of those sounds).

    Zimmerman says he’s staring at me, and then he says that Martin is “now he’s just staring at me..coming towards me…he’s coming to check me out…”

    Then you hear soft car alarms as if he opened the door to the vehicle and his breath on the phone changes. He obviously has left the vehicle to follow. The dispatcher can tell by the wind Zimmerman generates in the phone and that is when the dispatcher says, “we don’t need you to do that.” You can hear him breathe heavily for a several seconds more after that.

    Then, the dispatcher asks him, “what’s your last name?” Zimmerman answers and his voice is noticeably calmer and not breathless as before.

    What happens next is unclear insofar as the public knowledge is concerned. According to George, Martin came up on him from behind and there were a few words exchanged before Martin hit him in the face which knocked Zimmerman down. Apparently, Martin continued the assault by getting on top of Zimmerman and striking Zimmerman’s head against the ground.

    At least one, perhaps two witnesses have made statements to the effect that it was Martin that was on top of Zimmerman. The police report indicates that Zimmerman had a bloody nose (broken nose, who knows? lol) and blood/lacerations on the back of Zimmerman’s head. He had grass stains and wet clothing on the back of his clothes. This is according to the police report.

    There is also the other 911 calls where the callers desribed, “wrestling”. Obviously, there was a struggle.

    And then there’s the chilling call where you can hear someone calling out and a gun shot. The person calling out doesn’t sound like a 17 year old kid (subjective, I know).

    There is also all the contemporaneous evidence regarding Zimmerman’s statements and behavior following the incident. It’s not suggestive of someone of guilt.

  80. RICH says:

    “just in case assholes impersonating police officers such as yourself want to toss.”

    Bwahahaha!!! I have never, so it would be more appropriate instead to say “such as Zimmerman”, right asshole?

    AC, can we agree that guns and drugs don’t mix well? Guns and ignorant assholes don’t mix well either, right HTA?

  81. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    Look into the mirror asshole. Want to threaten folks on MB some more? Get off on “level 4” beating of women? Ever been arrested for domestic violence RICH? Problems with substance abuse fueling that violent tendency? Project much nut bag?

    In the remote possibility that your claims to deadly force instructor are true, again I thank God you are no longer teaching police officers how to die.

  82. Tim from TK says:

    “Hail The Amberlamps! says: March 29, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    Problem with anger control there RICH? Ready to “level 4″ my bitch ass? You were Federal LEO?”

    HTA – think TSA..

  83. StanInTexas says:

    In the remote possibility that your claims to deadly force instructor are true, again I thank God you are no longer teaching police officers how to die.

    Hail, that claim was put to rest when Rich told us that, if someone pulled a gun on him, he would GRAB FOR IT!

  84. AC says:

    AC, can we agree that guns and drugs don’t mix well?

    Absolutely. Guns do not mix with any mind-altering substance stronger than caffeine. Dopers, drunks, and even people wasted on Nyquil do not need to be handling firearms.

  85. RICH says:

    “Want to threaten folks on MB some more? Get off on “level 4″ beating of women?”

    Hahaha. Threaten? More brilliance from the ignorant one. What I said was “I’d like to personally demonstrate the use of level 4 on you”. Actually, I’d like to step that up to level 5 right now. Obviously you’ve never been to law enforcement school. You’ve never been taught, through demonstration, how to properly use force, even on women, have you? Do you think LEOs in training actually beat on each with real ASPS? No clown, they wear padding known as “lobster gear” while swinging away using padded replica batons. But you knew that because you instructed through demonstration, right?

    “I thank God you are no longer teaching police officers how to die.”

    What I taught were proper LE techniques in various situations to team members so they wouldn’t cross the line and shoot vigilante idiots such as yourself.

    “if someone pulled a gun on him, he would GRAB FOR IT!”

    Yes Stan, if I was unarmed and some stranger in close proximity pulled a gun in front of my face, I would. I’ve got the size, strength and combat training to atleast have a fighting chance to survive.

    What would you do, step back and pray that this stranger/felon/lunatic doesn’t execute you? Good luck with that.

  86. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    RICH said:

    Hahaha. Threaten? More brilliance from the ignorant one. What I said was “I’d like to personally demonstrate the use of level 4 on you”. Actually, I’d like to step that up to level 5 right now.

    Need a shovel RICH?

    What’s Level 5 RICH, deadly force? Would that include shouting epithets to women, calling them “bitch” like in “level 4?”

    I’d like to personally demonstrate the use of level 4 on you, right now, bitch.

    You aren’t a trainer anymore RICH, why would you be demonstrating deadly force on me? You think I would allow that?

    Who is the vigilante idiot now RICH? I know several veteran police officers, they would never speak to a civilian this way much less a woman. That is why you are a fraud and a nutcase.

    Hope you get the help you need.

  87. RICH says:

    “I know several veteran police officers”

    I’m proud of you.

    “What’s Level 5 RICH, deadly force?”

    Do you need a shovel?

    Level 1: Officer Presence
    Level 2: Verbal commands
    Level 3: Light pressure
    Level 4: Hard pressure
    Level 5: Intermediary weapons
    Level 6: Deadly force

    They used to hand out boating licenses in NH without any safety courses. Too many incidents were occuring. Perhaps a crash course in gun safety, laws, and self defense before issuing a gun permit wouldn’t be such a bad idea, considering how many ignorant assholes there are.

  88. StanInTexas says:

    Rich, so now you are adding that you are in close proximity, and are not armed, AND are of sufficient size/strength/training. Just so you know, grabbing at a gun from a crazed subject is a really good way to get shot!

    And your level system is interesting. I’m sure if a police officer tells a subject “Show me your license and registration” and that subject knocks them to the ground and begins assaulting them, that the Police Officer will calmly say….

    “Ok, my presence did not resolve the situation, nor did my verbal command. I will now go to light pressure and see if the subejct will cease his assault on my face.”

  89. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    So Level 5 is clubbing a woman with an impact weapon while screaming “bitch?” There is one misunderstanding here and one pissed-off, narcissistic asshole unable to control his anger. That is the person threatening someone whom he believes is a woman with serious bodily injury, perhaps even death, in an internet forum.

    You are not a cop (God help us if you really are). I am not a cop. Zimmerman was not a cop, there is no concrete evidence he assumed police-like authority in this incident but there is tangential evidence he is a “wannabe.” With regards to the shooting, there is no relevance to police-level authority by any of the actors under Florida law. None.

    Based on the current evidence WE have, Zimmerman shot to break the threat of deadly force offered by Martin; a Level 6 on your scale was used to counter Martin’s in-process use of Level 6 force on Zimmerman. He has an affirmative defense against prosecution based on the deadly force laws of Florida. That is the reason he’s not in jail right now.

    Florida isn’t New Hampshire. Want to claim you “won” this internet argument and protect your ego? Go ahead. It will not bother me in the least. Just one thing, after your behavior here never let me see your face in my presence in Texas. Understand?

  90. RICH says:

    Like I said Stan, good luck with that.

    and that subject knocks (LEO) to the ground and begins assaulting them

    In this situation, the assailant is the one who elevated the level for the officer. Appropriate action would be for the LEO would to resort to level 4 (joint manipulation and pressure points) to ward off and subdue the attacker.

    Oh, one more thing. LEAPS. I forgot the S which is to Summarize the suspects position.

  91. RICH says:

    oops,

    Appropriate action would be for the LEO to resort to level 4

  92. StanInTexas says:

    Thank you Rich. Any doubts I had about you every being associated with law enforment or training are now gone. I appreciate you clearing that up.

    You may go now!

  93. RICH says:

    after your behavior here

    Mine? LoL. I was having a civil discord. You suggested that I was “instructing officers how to die in a lethal confrontation.”

    Ouch! That was below the belt. Vigilante justice? Don’t like my response? Too bad. Reap what you sow, pal.

    never let me see your face in my presence in Texas. Understand?

    LoL. What are you gonna do, shoot me, hero?

  94. RICH says:

    Thanks Stan!

  95. AC says:

    If you saw this incident, sans shooting, would you have written it up as simple assault or aggravated assault?

  96. Barry Soetero says:

    My understanding (unconfirmed) is that Martin was staying with his father at his father’s girlfriend’s/fiancee’s townhome in that very same gated community. He was within a few hundred feet of their residence when this all went down.

    How come he waited 72 hours before going to look for him?

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