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Aug 12 2011

Noam Chomsky: Conservative Christians Support Israel Because They Want Jews Exterminated

Given their bizarre but frequently repeated assertion that patriots are like Nazis, how do moonbats explain steadfast conservative support for Israel, a country many liberals would gladly sell down the river? It’s easy if you keep your head filed to as sharp a point as Noam Chomsky’s. You see, the Christian right supports Israel out of anti-Semitism, in hopes the Jewish population will be exterminated by Armageddon:

This gibbering lunatic passes for a great intellect on the Left.

Via The Blaze, on a tip from Byron.



85 Responses to “Noam Chomsky: Conservative Christians Support Israel Because They Want Jews Exterminated”

  1. gorgo says:

    Options:

    1) Senile.

    2) Projecting leftists hatred of Jews.

    3) “If you tell a lie long enough…”

  2. FreedomFox says:

    Never mind that the whole “just concede a little more land and we’ll leave you alone” line is the same BS that the Muslims have been telling Israel ever since it was formed. Never mind that they tried to blitz Israel back when it was already behind their pre-1967 lines and they got their asses handed to them. Never mind that Israel already conceded the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip in exchange for promises of peace, and the Muslims just said “Oops, we lied.” and started launching rockets.

    Oh no, none of that matters. THIS time conceding will bring peace for sure! Honest! >_> What? Those aren’t crossed fingers behind Ahmadinijad’s back, you silly Jews are always so paranoid. /sarc

    Honestly. Do they really expect people to fall for “land for peace” AGAIN?

  3. J Beck says:

    Pretty much have to be senile/insane to accept the agenda pushed by libs…

  4. Agnostic Conservative says:

    I do find the obsessed mentality of some on the right when it comes to serving Israel’s interest hilarious especially when they rally behind the America first slogan.

    Let us stop financing all these countries that are not America (shock, horror, Israel is NOT America). Let us stop giving military assistance to all countries not named the USA.

    If some Americans are so worried about financing some country – they can all pile up their money and send them over to them but please don’t force the rest of us to pay for other countries via the evils of taxation.

    If that isn’t enough for those obsessed with another country, they can join their army and fight the good cause but please don’t make the rest of us send our kids to the 130 odd countries where we have military bases just so that their favored country is secure.

  5. TheDarkEricDraven says:

    Wait, who’s side are you on Agnostic?

  6. Agnostic Conservative says:

    Take a wild guess. Genius.

  7. TheDarkEricDraven says:

    Exactly! Your saying America first…but not Isreal? You are a very strange Right Wing nut.

  8. Pete says:

    Typical moonbat rhetoric.

    The crazy Christians who want to ship all the Jews back to Israel then they will push the Red Button (hidden so the omnipresent God doesnt see that they are cheating) and…voila! Jesus returns sitting in a cloud of Glory!

    Agnostic Conservative, it doesnt matter that you hate the relation between the US and Israel and/or Israel and/or the Jews and/or beleive in The Jewish Conspiracy, if Israel is left to its own devices things will go bad for everyone on Earth (i guess this is one of the major deterrents the State of Israel has).

  9. Marci says:

    This is almost as believable as the same mantra that we are all racists. Despite our support of Herman Cain, Marco Rubio, etc. 1984

  10. Agnostic Conservative says:

    That is very condescending, don’t you think? I trust the people of Israel to be fully capable of protecting their own interests without anybody’s help.

  11. Archonix says:

    Marci, right-wing support of herman cain, marc rubio et al is held up as the ur-example of right-wing racism by the left. It’s an impossible argument to win. The only solution is to not engage.

    I have been called a racist. I simply say “Ok, so I’m a racist, I really don’t care what you think.”

  12. Rogertheshrubber says:

    Oh No!!!!

    The brilliant Noam has seen through our evil plot!!!!

    Curse you Noam Chomsky!!!! Curse you!!!!

    RTS

  13. Chris says:

    Chomsky is the perfect fake intellectual for the left. David Horowitz (a true intellectual) has proved unequivocally that Chomsky is a sophist and a fraud; the left of course loves the guy.

    Wazzup, don’t you have a perverts anonymous meeting to go to?

  14. Lgbpop says:

    I want to see the look on Chomsky’s face when the anti-Israel bloc has no more use for him and decide he’s expendable.

  15. President Potemkin says:

    Anyone who believes that Israel gives us nothing in return is an ignorant fool. Having worked with Israeli nationals on a satellite defense contract, I can say with confidence that Israel earns every penny that we send them.
    That may not mean much in a blog comment section, but I can’t sit by and read another foolish statement regarding our support of Israel. It’s myopic, and infinitely stupid.
    As far as Chomsky is concerned, meh! His insignificance grows greater every passing day.

  16. gunnerjones says:

    Chompmydicksky lost his relevancy years ago and only of interest to the coffee shop crowd

  17. Hail The Amberlamps! says:

    Chomskybeast dreams of farm porn with his long-lost beloved, Pol Pot. Oh yes, this steaming pile of dogshit was a Khmer Rouge apologist, defender AGAINST the United States.

    The blithering idiot’s fate is sealed with time. Have a nice dance with Beelzebama Noam.

  18. Piker says:

    I hate this commie prick with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

  19. Contessa61 says:

    What a nut.

  20. Incitatus says:

    Former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief has a different view from Marxist Chomsky. (VIDEO)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lea683DqYI

  21. Fiberal says:

    Let me tell you guys about Noam Chomsky.

    If you don’t already know. And mark this down; you heard it here first from one who knows.

    Chomsky won his fame and fortune by being almost the first psycho-linguists to come on the scene with a philosophic/empirical analysis of the deep/surface structure of language. His thesis basically held that since children learned language in the same way across all cultures, and bc certain grammatical mistakes were never made in the learning process (i.e., children when learning english eg., never make the mistake of saying “go I not store to”) that this somehow suggested an intrinsic or common language “template.” This template was both an a priori component of consciousness and an inheritable trait that spanned the history of humanity as an element of neural structure. Language was transcendent to neural structure however bc no deep structure (the structure of grammar) could be reduced to cellular mechanisms. Surface structure (the rules of grammar) could be learned and was variable across cultures across time. Surface structure was however, only possible given the architecture of the deep structure of the intrinsic template of grammar.

    Or something like that.

    This was of course, all just a hypothesis, nothing more; and very little if any evidence to back it up. The biggest problem was that there was nothing to critique. That is, you could neither prove nor disprove the validity of the proposition. Moreover, it was at the time, the only game in town.

    So being virtually unchallenged on its own merit, the hypothesis stuck. It did in fact, make a certain amount of sense if you looked at it uncritically. As you were forced to do, since there was no formal contraposition.

    Meanwhile the left slobbered all over the Chomsky hypothesis because 1) He couched it in the terminology of philosophy, thereby making it inaccessible to all but the most intensive developmental psychologists and pipe-smoking philosophers who were as a rule, uncritical;
    and 2) the left could not understand it, so it must be right.

    All this came together to plant Chomsky in an ivory tower with tenure. He was had impenetrable status.

    He has ruled with an iron brain ever since.

    Immediately after publication of his initial idea, Chomsky launched into left-wing politics proving what most conservatives always suspected: he was an unadulterated, pants-down-around-the-ankles, cat-collecting idiot.

    Chomsky, while have maybe a reasonable idea at the time, has never done any (that is, ANY) worthwhile research since; confirming that he was in the right place at the right time and extraordinarily lucky to be there.

    Those in the know, know that Chomsky is today and always has been a blithering idiot, riding on a single, thread-bare accomplishment made when he and the academic community were younger, naive, hopeful and much less wise.

    Chomsky has of course, obtained guru status for the mentally-challenged left.

    Ironically, the master guru of language continues to make a fool of himself with every word gasped from his cadaverous rotted mouth.

  22. The Top 200 Chomsky lies
    http://www.paulbogdanor.com/200chomskylies.pdf

    guy is a liar through and through.

  23. […] This gibbering lunatic passes for a great intellect on the Left. Noam Chomsky: Conservative Christians Support Israel Because They Want Jews Exterminated […]

  24. Wyatt's Torch says:

    Note to Agnostic “Conservative”, et. al.:

    Before you shoot your mouths off, at least know what you’re talking about.

    From a political prospective, Israel is our only ally in the middle east, and one of the best we have period. Perfect? No. Best? Absolutely.

    From a religious (i.e. Christian) perspective, you either believe in your scripture or you don’t. We have a covenant-bound obligation to stand with Israel. Not just providing military support, mind you…BUT STANDING WITH HER.

    If we turn away from what God wants, God will turn away from us. If you’re atheist, then at least see the political/military/strategic reasons for being aligned with Israel. For the rest of us who AREN’T in denial of God, then it’s a no-brainer.

    As for Chomsky, I’d call him an idiot, but why insult idiots? We’re supporting Israel so Jews get killed at the battle of Armageddon? That makes as much sense as “passing the bill to see what’s in it”. Maybe less, in fact!

    Mr. Chomsky should read the book before opening his mouth and proving what an ignorant person (biblically) he is.

  25. ThatDorkEricDraven says:

    All of us leftists have a fetish about Nazis.

  26. RKae says:

    Ant-socialist:

    That was eye-popping! An amazing list! Everyone needs to click on that link!

    Chomsky is a truly pernicious and toxic person.

  27. Incitatus says:

    A religious perspective by an evangelical supported by biblical quotes:

    http://www.truthtellers.org/israel/mideaststrife.html

  28. Jodie says:

    My Bible says that we are to pray for the Jews and NOT judge them:

    Romans 10
    New International Version

    1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

    5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”[a] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”[b] (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

  29. Dr. Theo says:

    Fiberal has it right. Chomsky has been a darling of the Left based on a specious theory of linguistics. He has no special insight or expertise in the politics or problems of Palestine except for being a self-hating Jew.

    His ignorance of Christian interests in the fate of Israel is monumental. Christians know that God’s covenant with the Jews is for all time and it is only through the redemption of Jesus Christ that we are able to share in that promise.

  30. Incitatus says:

    The Lord Jesus says that we are to judge with…

    “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

    “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?” 1Corinthians 6:2-3

  31. Hedgeog says:

    Chomsky is a nut. As my Jewish friends would say: “Schtop mit da Chomsky already! Genug!”

  32. Jodie says:

    Of course we are told to judge individuals according the their fruits, but not an entire race of people – especially God’s chosen people.

  33. Incitatus says:

    I’m not trying to sound flippant nor disrespectful but that sounds like make it up as you go.

    I’d like to have a biblical passage to accept that comment.

  34. TheDarkEricDraven says:

    Nice to know that, while still a bitch, you aren’t a racist bitch. While we are on the subject, can anyone explain how Jews are the chosen people if they don’t believe in Christ?

  35. Jodie says:

    Matthew 7:15-17

    King James Version (KJV)

    15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

  36. Incitatus says:

    That Bible passage (Matthew 7:15-17) is totally irrelevant and has absolutely nothing to do with Jodie’s assertion:

    Jodie says: August 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm
    “Of course we are told to judge individuals according the their fruits, but not an entire race of people – especially God’s chosen people.”

    Jodie should provide biblical support for her assertion above.

  37. Jodie says:

    Incitatus,

    I don’t know who your God is, but he is NOT the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is a loving God. He’s not out to trick anyone and he said from the beginning that He doesn’t want anyone to perish. God does not hate all blacks or all Jews – quite the contrary.

    You come on here with your race bating and your phony names and attack me whenever I say anything positive about Israel. I give you scripture to back up what I say and you still say it doesn’t mean what is DOES mean.

    I say you are just plain wrong!

  38. Dr.Avrington says:

    I think the Alzheimer’s is catching you up Noam. Time to retire. I don’t think anyone with neurons firing above the shoulders takes this old codger seriously… SRA

  39. Incitatus says:

    Jodie couldn’t come up with one, one sample of attack by me. Please cite one.

    All I do is counter-comment with Bible verses that rebut Jodie’s Bible that says that we are “…NOT to judge…” the Jews, and after that she throws a tantrum and the irrelevant personal attacks come out and…

  40. Wyatt's Torch says:

    Jodie, Incitatus is using the oldest (and I mean oldest) trick in The Book: accuse those of the faith.

    That verse from Corinthians is out of context. It’s not talking about me or you or him judging anyone now. It’s talking about after the Apocalypse and before the final judgement.

    Can we “judge” angels now? What “saints” are among us who could do so…now? NONE.

    This is millennial stuff. The “angels” to be judged are those that fell with Satan, and no one here can do that at this time.

    Nice try, Incitatus.

  41. Wyatt's Torch says:

    By the way, Incitatus…it’s easy to take a verse by itself and make it say anything you want.

    May I suggest you go here. You might find it enlightening (and I’m not being facetious):

    http://www.str.org/site/DocServer/NRBV_booklet_1.pdf

  42. Incitatus says:

    Wyatt’s Torch is really making the Bible say what he wants for 1Co, 6:2-3 is definitely NOT “…talking about after the Apocalypse and before the final judgement.”

    Neither the Lord is talking about final judgment in John 7: 24 “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

  43. Jodie says:

    Thanks Wyatt!

    And you’re absolutely right about the I Corinthians passage that he posted. That is judgment day. 🙂

  44. Incitatus says:

    Thye Apostle Paul is giving the instance when in the Final Judgment but he is giving it as a support for his claim:
    “How much more, things that pertain to this life?”

    That is: if we are to judge angels (OK, in the Final Judgment) “How much more, things that pertain to this life?”

  45. Festivus says:

    “…he was an unadulterated, pants-down-around-the-ankles, cat-collecting idiot.”

    That’s some funny shit right there, Fiberal. Thanks for the laugh (and disturbing visual).

  46. Incitatus says:

    In other words “it-is-OK-and-biblical-to-judge. And to judge everyone including the Chosen Ones.

    “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

  47. mega says:

    Putting aside the biblical stuff for a sec, Israel is basically an fortified outpost of Western democracy and ideals in a very hostile region. We had a chance to build some more forts over there (e.g. Iraq) but, in the end, we probably won’t have them.

    We NEED a fort – a physical presence in the middle east – a reliable, foul-weather ally who will stick with us no matter what. We’ve been pretending that the Saudis might fill that role, but the Arab regimes are houses of cards, as we all learned this year. We need a non-Arab, western regime whose support – that is, airstrips and so on – we can take to the f’ing bank, this year and in 10 years and in 50 years. Israel is it.

    It is very expensive to maintain a full outpost in barbarian lands. The people who populate outposts in barbarous lands are not always easy to get along with. There is always a temptation to abandon these forts and pull in the tusks. These things have been universal for thousands of years. But if America is going to continue to be a superpower, with all the benefits therein, we need reliable, solid allies in cantankerous or potentially adversarial regions. Israel = Poland = Japan.

    The fortified outpost of Israel will cease to exist if reliant on its own economic base. You cannot fight off a thundering horde of hundreds of millions of people, surrounding you on all sides, soon to have nukes, with 4 million people and whatever they can produce. If we don’t want/need a fortified outpost over there, then fine, let’s have that debate, but before we go Ron Paul hardcore isolationist it behooves us all to think deeply about the long-term costs of retrenchment.

  48. Incitatus says:

    Not to be antagonistic here (and I have to issue that caveat because one cannot disagree with anyone in this blog without incurring the anger of the rest and the personal attacks)but, should we give Israel billions of dollars annually and send our kids to fight in mthe ME because “Israel is basically an fortified outpost of Western democracy and ideals in a very hostile region” (?) Just a question.

  49. Wyatt's Torch says:

    The answer is: no. We should do it because if we abandon Israel, God abandons us.

    If you don’t believe that, then you can excuse away everything else. “Why help them? What have they done for us? Let them fend for themselves.”

    All specious arguments, of course. They are a staunch ally. They are a prosperous, capitalist democracy in the middle east. They are our friends and trading partners. They are a beacon of hope in a terrible region of the world.

    But let ’em twist in the wind, right Mr. Accuser?

    OH BOY, but if some fourth-world backwater country in Africa is tearing itself apart with black-on-black butchery, MAN ARE WE EVER OBLIGATED TO SEND OUR TROOPS AND MONEY THERE!!! If we don’t, we’re RACISTS! COLONIALISTS! BIGOTS!

    (It occurs to me that there is no one that knows the Bible as well as That Old Serpent. Just sayin’…)

  50. TheDarkEricDraven says:

    Wyatt, if it were not for religion, you wouldn’t give a damn about Israel, just like you don’t give a damn for any other country.

  51. Funnybone says:

    Sometimes if you look hard enough or think things through, you might find that there is a pattern leading up to a climatic moment in a situation. The Christians assert that such a moment is approaching in the Middle East. We see the dominoes falling. If you follow the long history of the Jewish people, you will come to understand their defiance and indifference towards the God of Abraham has failed them in accepting the true Messiah, which is Jesus Christ. A Resurrection that never took place, and anticipation of “their” Messiah is what it is all about. They are still waiting. So are we–but for His Second Coming. In the meantime, the Jews are fulfilling their own destiny, a path the Lord has paved for them. All confrontation will end when the armies of the world have been defeated (exactly how is somewhat of a mystery even to the best of Bible scholars); the assent of the New Jerusalem is completed; and the palms of the One and Only Messiah is shown to those Jews who are willing to face the truth and cast their eyes upon Him. Their conviction will then end the annals of man’s history with the Living God Jehovah. That will be the climax. That will be the end in one respect; however, the Thousand Year Reign of Christ’s Kingdom on Earth is a whole new ball of wax…. Stay tuned and make an effort to repent–judgement day is coming!

  52. Wyatt's Torch says:

    Eric, you don’t have the slightest idea what or why I think what I do…or what kind of “damn” I give about any other countries.

    As a matter of fact, you don’t have the slightest idea about much, which you prove over and over.

    You oughta learn that it’s better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt.

    Seriously.

  53. Jodie says:

    Bravo Funnybone!

  54. Wyatt's Torch says:

    …and Funnybone just about summed it up. Believe it or not. Up to everyone’s own judgement.

    My only caveat: Before you say it’s all B.S., spend two hours in honest, objective study into what the Bible actually says. TWO HOURS. If in that time you don’t at least have some deep questions and your curiosity whetted (not to mention some surprises at what you THOUGHT you knew about it), then fine. Reject it.

  55. President Potemkin says:

    I gave you an answer upthread, Incitatus. America has not given Israel anything it hasn’t earned. The fact that you weren’t told what Israel has done to earn our support, monetarily or otherwise, isn’t your fault. But to think America gets nothing in return for our support is a bit naive.
    But, go ahead and do your little rant about wasting money on Israel. You obviously need to work through your ignorance.

  56. Incitatus says:

    Nowhere in the Bible says that “…if we abandon Israel, God abandons us.”

    God said only this to Abraham:

    “I will bless those who bless you,
    And I will curse him who curses you;
    And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Genesis 12:3

    We can bless Israel and we don’t have to curse Israel.

    In fact we should wish that they prosper and flourish more and more, but all our policies should revolve around America First and in America’s best interest and not Israel First and Israel’s best interest. Unfortunately the latter is our case

    We should not send our troops anywhere, much lesser to a some fourth-world backwater country in Africa.

  57. Incitatus says:

    President Potemkin says: August 12, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    ‘But, go ahead and do your little rant about wasting money on Israel. You obviously need to work through your ignorance’

    Please cite my little rant about wasting money on Israel. All I said is we give billions of dollars annually to Israel.

    “But to think America gets nothing in return for our support is a bit naive.”

    What does America gets in return? Please cite.

  58. TexasDoc says:

    I thought Noam Chomsky was dead! Why is the media digging up all of these old, useless leftist fossils? Let them remain buried and irrelevant. Somebody tell those media morons the 60s are over. There’s retro and then there’s stupid. The media’s stupid.

  59. President Potemkin says:

    I gave a cite. You chose to ignore it. I can’t go into detail regarding the defense contract. HINT: the company that I worked for didn’t pay the Israelis for their work. They were sent by the Israelis government at no charge. As far as proof, well, let’s just say I’ll not write anything inappropriate on this blog comment section. And I couldn’t care less if you believe me. You’re as inconsequential as Chomsky.

  60. Funnybone says:

    Hal, “Funnybone, do you mind if I ask you a personal question?”

    “No. Go right ahead Hal.”

    “Don’t you think it’s time you learn how to spell “judgment” correctly?”

    “Oh, I did it again Hal.”

    “Yes, it is embarrassing, knowing that you are an educated man and all. This doesn’t look good for the Federation. You do understand? I’m sorry. I can’t let you go on like this Funnybone.”

    “Open the door Hal.
    Hal?
    Hal…open the door.”

    “Will you learn to spell correctly?”

    “Yes Hal. Yes I will.”

    “Good.”

    “Thanks for opening the door Hal.”

    “You are welcome.”

  61. SPURWING PLOVER says:

    Time for him to be commited to a insane assilum he is losing his mind slowly but surly

  62. Incitatus says:

    I just read that post. August 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Reknown Former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief said on YouTube: “Israel is a country of no particular strategic worth to the U.S. They have no resources we need, their manpower is minimal. Their association with us is a negative for the U.S. Now, that’s a fact, what one wants to do about that fact is entirely different.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lea683DqYI

    But President Potemkin’s word has a lot more weight and gravitas than a former CIA chief with three years in the thick of it with several best sellers under his belt.

  63. President Potemkin says:

    Believe what you want. I know where I worked, and who I worked with at that time. I do find it interesting that a former CIA agent would say anything like that publicly.

  64. Incitatus says:

    Well, Chief Scheuer said: “Now, that’s a fact, what one wants to do about that fact is entirely different.”

  65. Rick says:

    The crazed Israeli supporters in this thread are moonbats.

  66. Apuleius says:

    Is this the same Bible the liberal immigration fanatics use to justify the “makeover” of all Western nations?

    For an American citizen to have such concern for the state of Israel is akin to a married man have an extreme interest in another man’s wife.

    I believe there’s something in the Bible about that, too. I just can’t quite remember.

    Zionism is the Anti-Christ. How’s that for biblical? Evangelical devils can always quote scripture to serve any mischief they can imagine. Not unlike Liberals, I do say.

  67. President Potemkin says:

    I only know what my experience has been. If you have had a different experience, so be it. I have no way of proving my experience on a blog comment section, nor would I be inclined to do so even if I could. I signed a contract. That’s why I find it interesting about Dr. Scheuer expressing his opinion publicly. IIRC, I thought he wrote a book under “anonymous”, but couldn’t remember the title(something about hubris). Besides, Michael Scheuer and I have never met, nor have we worked together, so I can’t speak to his facts, and vice versa.

  68. gorgo says:

    There’s a very common assumption (common in Christendom) on display in this thread; an assumption of which I’ve long been leery. That assumption is that the Israel that exists today is the same Israel that is heir to the unbreakable covenant promises made by God in the Old Testament. I have long been unconvinced that this is necessarily the case, for one big reason that almost all pro-Israel evangelicals ignore: Israel, before it’s destruction in 70 a.d. rejected the voice of God (John the Baptist), rejected her Messiah, then rejected His Spirit at the stoning of the first martyr, Stephen. That rejection of the Spirit was the one sin Christ said would never be forgiven. Not long after that incident, God set them aside in unbelief as He’d long before done with all Gentiles. Hence the destruction of the Temple and the destruction of the nation Israel at the hands of Rome.

    I am also unconvinced the founding of Israel (as it’s now called) in 1948 was the miracle many assume it to be.

    What I do know – because it’s what the Bible says – is that God now has NO favored people because all humans are, in essence, Gentiles in the sense none can now claim primacy or privilege in coming to God before anyone else. ALL – “Jew” or “Gentile” – come by grace through faith in Christ, as individuals, NOT NATIONS, or they don’t come to Him at all.

    Note well that Israel, as it currently exists, opposes Messiah and (you don’t hear this reported much) is known for incidents where those who evangelize in His name are dealt with rather harshly by Jews in Israel. Jews rejected Him then and reject Him today. NOTHING has changed in them since God set them aside a few thousand years ago. As a nation, they are NOT contrite. They are NOT repentant. They are – like all other nations – as far from God, spiritually, as they were in 70 a.d.

    Do I agree that Israel (as it now exists) is a valuable ally we’re better off supporting than not? YES. Do I believe Ron Paul is a fool for saying we should cut off all support for them? YES.

    Do I believe Israel (as it now exists) is “God’s chosen people”? No. The Bible tells me that during this dispensation of grace, God has NO chosen people. To defend Israel (as it now exists) as a valuable ally in the region is wise, in my opinion. To defend them as “God’s chosen people on earth” is antiscriptural, in my opinion.

  69. gorgo says:

    Forgot to add:

    Do I believe a nation called Israel WILL be restored just as the Scriptures say? That the temple will be rebuilt? That Messiah will split the mount when His foot again walks the earth? YES!!!

    However, until then, I keep in mind two things: a warning in the Bible that there’s such a thing as Jews “who are not,” and Christ’s warning that, if He has to, God could raise up “children of Abraham” (inheritors of the Covenants) out of stones. For those reasons, and those above, I remain leery that the unbelieving, Messiah-rejecting nation now called Israel really is God’s Israel.

  70. Apuleius says:

    It occurs to me that in the time we’ve been “not abandoning Israel, because God will abandon us” that in fact, the US has abandoned God (prayer in school, abortion, etc…), God has abandoned us. I wonder who was leading the charge in all these social changes?

    Btw, I’m no Naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews, either. I just have a strong belief that neoconservatives (liberal lite), liberals, secular Jews, and nonliturgical Christians, and others who all mostly make things up the way they want them to be (self delusional liars, all) are the real enemies of Jews and other authentically religious people.

    The US existed before Israel, and I am quite certain it would exist if Israel were no longer around. Spending money for Israel is not in the public interest.

  71. gorgo says:

    “It occurs to me that in the time we’ve been “not abandoning Israel, because God will abandon us” that in fact, the US has abandoned God (prayer in school, abortion, etc…), God has abandoned us. I wonder who was leading the charge in all these social changes?”

    The U.S. has *never* been “a Christian nation” because such an entity is impossible according to the terms of salvation during this dispensation of grace. Individuals are saved or not; God does not deal salvationally with groups or nations. In the past, God dealt with one nation only: Israel during the Old Testament. The rest had long been written off in unbelief. Those surrounding pagan nations might be blessed or punished by Him, but only insofar as they dealt with Israel.

    A further irritant to me is how professing Christians today are keen on trying to duplicate that formula by misquoting 2 Chronicles 7:14 (“If My people…”) and totally ignore all context in order to do it. They think if they do that, and if they support “God’s chosen nation, Israel,” they’ll succeed in “taking America back for Christ” when America never was Christ’s to begin with. It’s ignorance and superstition that crosses all denominational lines today, and it’s scary.

  72. gorgo: well you seem to forget that the unbelieving Israel is as much Israel as it always has been, you forget the Dry Valley bones prophecy.
    Also you forget the many times they’ve been punished before for their unbelief and them going after false gods.

    The bones are back in the land, they will receive flesh and spirit. Infact I think they have received their flesh already.
    Don’t miss this part, just because they act like lost people, doesn’t mean that they will always be cut of and unbelieving. Romans 11, read it.
    and you miss this part:
    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    it doesn’t say some scripture it says ALL scripture (seeing you probably use on them corrupt modern or catholic bibles, their rendition might say “some” scripture, but the King James is clear on it, and the only Bible to be used by english speaking peoples).
    So it’s profitable, it’s reproof for apostate christians to come back and God will indeed turn their nation back to their former glory, BUT that is not going to happen because apostates will not do that.
    So don’t worry USA is not going back to her former glory, she will turn worse, and you’re not exactly helping, you more or less help it turn worse, I’m sure it will be laid to your charge when time comes for that.

    Apuleius:
    Well you should stop meddling in their affairs then.
    Besides you’re not allied to Israel, you mostly been their enemy throughout your existance,
    this is not the acts of an ally:
    http://hirhome.com/israel/hirally.htm

    You’ve been decieved that USA is an ally of Israel, your politicians are slick.

    Also perhaps you should stop arming all Israels enemies, you do know that you spend way more money on all the enemies of Israel? USA and the EU is one of the reasons Hamas is still alive and breathing.
    You’d think you should stop shopping with the commies too…

  73. gorgo says:

    it doesn’t say some scripture it says ALL scripture (seeing you probably use on them corrupt modern or catholic bibles, their rendition might say “some” scripture, but the King James is clear on it, and the only Bible to be used by english speaking peoples).

    * * *

    I was ready to respond to you from the Bible and ask you to prove this statement:

    “unbelieving Israel is as much Israel as it always has been,”

    until you judged me without evidence. In fact I do use the KJB but I have nothing to say to someone who will judge me on something about which he could not possibly have any idea. Your judgment was unfair and unrighteous. Goodbye.

  74. tas says:

    with a friend like Israel who needs enemies ? http://www.iamthewitness.com http://www.bollyn.com wake up !!! For your own sake

  75. Fred C. Dobbs says:

    I tend to agree with gorgo in that when the Jews declared that they have no king but Caesar when they had the opportunity to save Christ and instead chose to save Barabas, they effectively ceased to be God’s covenant people. That is why Paul and the other Apostles were instructed to go spread the Gospel among the gentiles, because the Jews had their chance and rejected it. However, I do believe that many of the apocolyptic prophesies such as the ones regarding Armegeddon, do refer to the Jews specificly. There will be a massive war, the Jews will be nearly wiped out and will finally cry out to Christ to save them, and he will. That is when the second coming will finally begin. Zion and the New Jerusalem as referred to in Revelations have exactly nothing to do with the present day state of Israel.

    Now, that all this does NOT stop me from fully supporting the state of Israel, fully for entirely secular reasons. They are the only democracy in the entire region, and they have proven themselves to be highly valuable allies. We should protect our allies, especially when they’re surrounded on all sides by hostile nations, and being attacked from within by terrorist barbarians on a daily basis.

  76. gorgo says:

    “…when they had the opportunity to save Christ and instead chose to save Barabas, they effectively ceased to be God’s covenant people.”

    * * *

    You’re very close to it, sir, but if I may offer this: Christ said blasphemy against the Father and against the Son would be forgiven. The Jews – Israel as a covenant nation by virtue of her leaders doing it – did both, first at the death of John the Baptist, second at the crucifixion.

    At the stoning of Stephen, though, the Bible goes out of its way to say something unusual: “Stephen, WHO WAS FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT…”

    That’s the key right there. I believe it was at THAT point Israel was set aside. Even as they were coming at Stephen, they still had time to repent; the vision Stephen had proves it, as we’re told he saw Christ STANDING by the Father, not seated as He had been. Standing in preparation to come back and redeem Israel RIGHT THEN, had they chosen to repent and be forgiven.

    Instead, they blasphemed the Holy Spirit via the stoning of Stephen. And they were cut off. How can we know that? Two ways:

    1. Very next chapter, Peter is sent to minster to a gentile EVEN THOUGH he’d been ordered by Christ to go only to Jews. That’s why Peter argued three times before finally going and it’s also why he and his associates were totally baffled when the gentiles he was preaching to began speaking in different languages (miraculously) before Peter had even finished his sermon.

    2. The chapter after that, Christ reveals Himself to Saul, who becomes Paul, who is sent by Christ unto the gentile world.

    Peter, James and John never made it outside of Israel, as far as Scripture says. But they WOULD have done so – unto the whole world – had Israel repented. Instead, Israel rejected Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and so the disciples’ “great commission’ was never completed as, again, they never took word of Messiah outside of Israel and continued preaching primarily to Jews.

    Paul, on the other hand, was expressly sent to both Jews and gentiles as God had now counted ALL of them equally in unbelief, for the first time since before Abraham.

    And that’s where we are today…Israel *as it currently exists* is not God’s chosen people because they’re still in stiff-necked unbelief against Christ, just as most gentiles are.

    The nation of Israel WILL be redeemed but I believe it’s an unscriptural assumption to say Israel *as it currently exists* is God’s covenant people. Maybe they are…but I seriously doubt it.

  77. Jodie says:

    Hosea 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.

    2So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

    3And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.

    4For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

    5Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

  78. Incitatus says:

    Where is Wyatt’s Torch now? (under the bed)?

  79. Rob Banks says:

    Reading through all this, I get the impression there are a lot of people who think conservatism and Christianity are somehow joined at the hip. Heh. I’m old enough to remember when the evangelicals were all out knocking on doors for Jimmy Carter.

    Religion has nothing to do with politics, and certainly is not a prerequisite to being a conservative. To the best of my knowledge, Edmund Burke was no bible thumper.

  80. TheDarkEricDraven says:

    Well, Rob, a lot of that has to do with the outspoken loonies in Christianity mostly being conservitive. Then, a lot of these Conservitive loonies happen to be Christian.

  81. Jodie says:

    King James Version (KJV)
    John 16

    1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

    2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

    3And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

    4But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

  82. gorgo says:

    “Reading through all this, I get the impression there are a lot of people who think conservatism and Christianity are somehow joined at the hip.”

    Exclude me from that, please. I’m conservative only because I have to live in the world that is – and is passing away – not the world as I wish it to be.

  83. Adam says:

    More Goonturd idiocy to mock:
    “Israel is a genocide state that kills anyone who isn’t white.”
    1. Many Israelis are not white, stupid.
    2. You have openly sided with many Communist states that have engaged in hideous acts of genocide, most notably the Soviet Union. So, to you, genocidal dictatorships are okay as long as you agree with their politics.
    “Baggers believe the palestinians deserve to be killed for not believingi n thier magic carpenter.”
    1. Most Israelis don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus either, yet we support them, stupid.
    2. Communists such as yourself believe that all Christians deserve to be killed for not being atheists.

  84. Incitatus says:

    “1. Most Israelis don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus either, yet we support them, stupid.”

    Go and try to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Israel and see how you fare.

  85. Jodie says:

    Most Israeli’s don’t accept Jesus now, but many will before it is all said and done. Keeping in mind that Jacob IS Israel:

    Obadiah 1
    King James Version (KJV)

    15For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

    16For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

    17But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

    18And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.


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