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Sep 27 2017

Open Thread

nfl-what-nation

On a tip from AlexMcQuade.



253 Responses to “Open Thread”

  1. Bodhisattva says:

    It figures…

    ‘A fairytale without the prince’: Italian woman ‘marries herself’

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/27/fairytale-without-prince-italian-woman-marries/

  2. Bodhisattva says:

    Unlikely:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/emmanuel-macron-says-britain-will-have-place-inreformed-simplified/

    Emmanuel Macron says Britain could return to ‘reformed, simplified’ EU

    Crash and burn…. crash and burn…

  3. Bodhisattva says:

    How to become a U.S. Citizen… the hard way

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/forced-work-sex-slave-new-york/

    I was forced to work as a sex slave in New York

  4. RKae says:

    Shut up and bake the cake, bigot!

    (Sarcasm.)

  5. RKae says:

    Mega Outbreak Of Anal Cancer Ravages The LGBT, Doctors Announce ‘This Is The Next Great LGBT Health Crisis And We Don’t Know How To Stop It’

    http://shoebat.com/2017/09/26/mega-outbreak-of-anal-cancer-ravages-the-lgbt-doctors-announce-this-is-the-next-great-lgbt-health-crisis-and-we-dont-know-how-to-stop-it/

    (Horrifying article, but people need to know that it’s not all just rainbow flags, feathered boas, and show tunes. Also important: It informs on how anal sex has been foisted on the heterosexual world by ever-increasing sickness in porn.)

  6. daPenguin says:

    will these guys get a clue?
    Not Friggin Likely

  7. Bodhisattva says:

    Lunatic liberal moonbats who deny that border walls work are denying the reality that is Israel, who’s border wall has reduced terrorism to near zero.

    But that’s not all. Another example, an odd one at that, is the Spanish city of Melilla. That is, it WAS working until, in 2014, Moroccans rushed it and broke into Melilla – highlighting that it needed an upgrade:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/28/melilla-spain-morocco-400-migrants-break-fence

    Yes, it needed an upgrade, just like our southern border – which is starting the 3 year process of it’s upgrade with the construction of prototypes:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/09/26/prototypes-for-trumps-border-wall-break-ground-in-san-diego.html

    Expect a lot of stomping, whining and other nonsense from the luatic liberal moonbats over this.

    The state of California actually passed what are essentially ILLEGAL laws (you’re not allowed to pass laws to target specific individuals just because they are engaging in a LEGAL activity you don’t like) that will punish any California company that takes part in building the wall, so the companies that are competing for the wall contract(s) are all from out of state.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/03/california_looking_to_punish_contractors_who_help_build_wall.html

  8. Bodhisattva says:

    You may have heard some people claiming our national anthem is racist – and justifying it with a FALSE interpretation of some words from the anthem.

    Here are the verses of the song, with the deliberately misinterpreted words highlighted.

    Oh, say can you see by the dawn’s early light
    What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
    O’er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
    Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
    Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
    ‘Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
    That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
    A home and a country should leave us no more!
    Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:

    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
    Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
    Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
    Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    Lunatic liberal moonbats are claiming the bit about “hireling and slave” refers to blacks who were fighting with the British, but anyone who bothers to look into this learns the truth:

    The “hirelings” were mercenaries, Hessians, Germans who were paid to fight for England.

    The “slaves” were men who were “impressed” by the British navy. This refers to the act of taking men into a military or naval force by compulsion, with or without notice, and putting them on a “press gang”. Navies of several nations used forced recruitment by various means. The impressment of seamen from American ships caused serious tensions between Britain and the United States in the years leading up to the War of 1812. These men were essentially slaves.

    They use this deliberate misinterpretation and misrepresentation of these lyrics to support their claim that Francis Scott Key, who wrote the song, was racist and, therefore, America is racist. Nonsense, of course. Key actually arranged personally for the release of several former black slaves AND he worked in the courts to ensure others were freed.

    Now fast forward to more recent times and to today:

    In the opening pages of Who Are We?, Samuel Huntington describes a scene indicative of the important place the national anthem plays in our national identity and of the dire situation of the country at present regarding respect for that anthem. The U.S. men’s soccer team in 1998 reached the Gold Cup final match to face Mexico before a partisan anti-American crowd who threw objects at American players and loudly booed the “Star-Spangled Banner.” The game was, amazingly, played not in Mexico, but in Los Angeles, and some significant portion of those booing were American citizens who so weakly identified with their country that such scorn for its national symbols came effortlessly to them. Huntington recalls the episode as one key illustration of the erosion of respect and veneration for American national symbolic culture.

    The depressing spectacle of NFL players refusing to stand for the national anthem is further evidence of this cultural decay, and efforts to frame it as consonant with, or even especially archetypal of deep American values are themselves an indication of how poorly many Americans understand the meaning of the national anthem and how feebly they resonate with the emotional valence of that meaning.

    The claim is made that those players who kneel during the anthem are merely engaging in a fundamentally American form of protest to draw attention to imperfections in the country, with the goal of, as Colin Kaepernick put it, hastening the coming of the day when American symbols “represent what [they’re] supposed to represent.” Radical, perhaps, but ultimately reformative rather than revolutionary and comfortably situated in the mainstream civil rights tradition of the country. Yet these players uniformly indicate their support for the Black Lives Matter movement. Although an astounding proportion of the media figures writing about this movement cannot bring themselves to actually read what that movement’s leaders have described as its ideology and goals, they are not hard to find online. The Black Lives Matter view of American society is fundamentally hostile. The country is, in their account, “systematically and intentionally” dedicated to the genocidal “demise” of “Black lives.” Among the proclaimed goals of the movement is the “disrupt[ion]” of the “nuclear family” in favor of “black villages” that will apparently replace families in the role of child-rearing and socialization. Whatever one thinks of these ideas, they are undeniably and frankly oppositional to basic beliefs and institutions of American culture.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/09/what_the_national_anthem_means.html

    This idea is the basis for the justification by BLM and other groups to engage in the use of fascist tactics, including the routine use of deadly force and ambush, against whites for any reason, at any time, though it usually occurs during demonstrations or when cops are ambushed randomly on the streets.

    So much for the idea that this is just about good old-fashioned American reform of American society. The message should be clear: in refusing to stand for the anthem, these players, all of them millionaires celebrated beyond the wildest dreams of nearly all humankind because they happen to play a schoolyard game well in a country where entertainers are unduly deified and paid kingly sums for running and jumping, indicate their sneering refusal of any sense of identity, gratitude, and responsibility to this society that makes it possible for them to be so richly rewarded for frivolous play.

    The football players have innumerable allies in the media, at least some of whom pretend to be interested in history. But the same instinctive disdain for American history and culture of the Kaepernickites is palpable in these efforts to defend them. Francis Scott Key is dishonestly caricatured as a virulent and murderous racist, the War of 1812 is perversely spun as yet another episode of American imperialism and, still more counterfactually, a war of American slaveholders against freed slaves, and the entire meaning of the Banner is made to rest on one verse, never sung in performances, the interpretation of which is contested by serious historians. As with the Kaepernickites, the rhetoric of fairmindedness and respectability is paper-thin, and the final product is fairly straightforward derisive animus for American history, principles, and identity.

  9. Bodhisattva says:

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-tv-networks-deliberately-avoided-booing-fans-cbs-nbc-fox-espn-monday-night-football/wp37jk7eoiha1p7ktogwfftzs

    Why didn’t TV networks show angry, booing NFL fans Sunday or Monday?

    The NFL’s TV partners decided to air live coverage of the national anthem before Week 3 games.

    Networks typically do not televise the national anthem except for the Super Bowl and other special occasions, but they recognized this would be a golden opportunity to slant coverage in order to further the narrative of Trump derangement syndrome that is sweeping the country.

    Some fans angrily let their home teams know they resented the protest behaviors. The audio mics picked up the boos. Yet the TV networks mostly avoided crowd shots Sunday, so there was never a chance for viewers to see fans jeering players.

    A segment of Patriots fans in Foxborough, Mass., for example, nearly booed their own players off the field when some Pats sat or kneeled, with some screaming, “Stand up!”

    One behind-the-scenes TV staffer at another stadium told Sporting News that camera operators were ordered to avoid crowd shots in case they showed fans counterprotesting the protests. This is to create and enhance the FAKE NEWS narrative that the public is solidly behind the players and against Trump – which is also being pushed via fake polls which, as with Clinton’s supposed lead during the entire 2016 election, have been skewed to suggest 2/3 of the country does not feel the players should suffer any consequence for disrespecting our flag, our country and our veterans.

    NBC Sports, CBS Sports, Fox Sports and ESPN pay billions each year to televise live NFL games. The league saw this weekend’s unprecedented anthem coverage as a golden opportunity to falsely demonstrate unity among players, coaches owners AND FANS — and opposition to Trump’s comments, despite the fact THIS IS NOT TRUE.

    By covering one of the most significant days in NFL history with rose-colored glasses, the networks cheated viewers. We got an incomplete picture of what really happened in stadiums on Sunday and Monday. This is why many of us have lost all faith in the lame-stream media and point out they are no longer journalists, but rather they’ve chosen to become propagandists.

  10. Bodhisattva says:

    It’s only day three of Megyn Kelly’s new daytime show on NBC, and the program is already being dragged down by a series of offensive remarks, cringeworthy interactions, and awkward moments.

    “Megyn Kelly TODAY” has created a number of bad headlines since its Monday premiere.

    In response to a promo video where Kelly claims to be a “unifying force,” John Oliver’s HBO program, “Last Week Tonight” ran a supercut of Kelly’s most “controversial” remarks – See it at the link below:

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/27/megyn-kellys-today-show-plagued-by-awkward-moments-and-offensive-remarks/

  11. Jodie says:

    No surprise that the left is now calling for not having the National Anthem played at sports events any more. Of course, this was the Obama/Soros plan all along.

  12. StephaneDumas says:

    I saw this one via American Thinker. A former Oberlin professor had been caught over stealing grant money, the MSM won’t notice this one. http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/09/native_american_activist_and_former_oberlin_professor_indicted_by_feds_over_stealing_grant_money.html

  13. Otis Donkey says:

    War is Peace / Freedom is Slavery / Ignorance is Strength

    Dissent is Patriotism

  14. GUN GRABBER DON says:

    .
    How to keep moslems OUT:

    Guernsey won’t accept refugees because its residents are ‘too Islamophobic’

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/06/guernsey-wont-accept-refugees-because-its-residents-are-too-islamophobic-5666412/

    Looks like something worth emulating..
    .

  15. TED says:

    NIGGALOIDS UNITE! Can you NFL watchers actually FEEL your IQ lower as the GAME progresses??!!!! 😎

  16. Anonymous says:

    NFL will now include Antifa in the draft starting next year.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ebt-0903-antifa-701.jpg

  17. Anonymous says:

    Run America down, spread “social justice” mindlessness and Antifa anyone who disagrees…
    https://s2.postimg.org/hpm7rhptl/soros_execellent.jpg

  18. TED says:

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ce475bc2143e1777b5800f80b36c7e95fb5cd692e30960343b7d6ed07b4fd401.jpg
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. TED says:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6cc6d90b9b65f7063d810b81b966ad0e102542409ffdb4221f6aa09f61128f95.png
    The POS that doesn’t know what NATION the “N” stands for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. TED says:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fb5c82c452960536aab029e1c4447106121aac0d8e6b02fa216033a90b28b0cf.jpg

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENJOY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. MAS says:

    Oh they be pickin cotton alright, fo they leftist massas.

  22. Kevcar says:

    I’d love to see him reach over and just snap that thing right off.

  23. Mr. Freemarket says:

    The NFL players have the answer if you don’t like them taking a knee:
    http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nfl/titans/2017/09/27/titans-delanie-walker-dont-come-game-donald-trump-national-anthem-nfl/709124001/

    ““And the fans that don’t want to come to the game? I mean, OK. Bye. I mean, if you feel that’s something, we’re disrespecting you, don’t come to the game. You don’t have to. No one’s telling you to come to the game. It’s your freedom of choice to do that.”

    Thanks for the advice.

  24. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Wonder how many times Schumer and Weiner paid her a visit?

  25. Mr. Freemarket says:

    If the BLM folks think American society is fundamentally hostile, there is an easy answer.

    There are well over 100 nations that apparently aren’t hostile. Pick one. Move there. Enjoy life.

  26. Mr. Freemarket says:

    The NFL or any other private organization can decide to eliminate the National Anthem any time they want. Of course, when the next Olympics comes around, that’s a different matter. Any athlete with the US team that would take a knee during the National Anthem should be stripped of their affiliation with the US team. Send them to some other country that they are happier with.

    Kenya comes to mind.

  27. These idiots don’t get the connection between fan attendance and their paychecks.
    Yet.

  28. Torcer says:

    One could ask if things could get any more absurd…. But one is fearful of the answer…

  29. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Well….a hero until peer pressure made him apologize for not joining his classmates in the locker room.

  30. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Here’s the funny thing. Far more slaves picked tobacco than cotton.

    Yet….no protests against tobacco products….

  31. Mr. Freemarket says:

    It may take some time for the lesson to sink in.

  32. Torcer says:

    Perhaps for once we can try to elicit an honest and open opinion from KirklesWorth
    on this turn of events. This is more bad news for the cause of Liberty if President Trump sides with the Left on healthcare, so let see if it can actually add to the debate on the pressing and current issue.

    BREAKING: Trump says he will negotiate with DEMOCRATS on a new healthcare bill
    Trump now says he’s going to negotiate with Democrats to get an ‘even better’ healthcare bill passed

    I know Republicans have failed to do what they promised in repealing Obamacare and have also failed at passing Obamacare lite. They’ve completely failed all the way around. But if Trump intends on negotiating with Nancy and Chuck, then this is a terrible idea that will only make things worse. They are the ones who shoved Obamacare down our throats in the first place!

    If however he intends to negotiate with Democrats in Republican states, to bring them over to the Republican side on health care, then he might get something meaningful passed. But a bill that’s passed by even a few Democrats is likely to be worse than what we’ve already seen. If they aren’t fixing the inherent problems driving up the costs, then what’s the point.
    http://therightscoop.com/breaking-trump-says-he-will-negotiate-with-democrats-on-a-new-healthcare-bill/

  33. KirklesWorth says:

    Nah, not interested. Got a problem with that?

  34. Torcer says:

    Once again, the man is moving left… Is that perfectly fine with you?

  35. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Predictable.

    Kirklesworth isn’t interested because Trump is basically following his liberal opinions on healthcare.

  36. KirklesWorth says:

    Once again, “Nah, not interested. Got a problem with that?”

  37. KirklesWorth says:

    Et tu, Freemarket? Ending the détente?

  38. Torcer says:

    That was my assessment as well..

    It also explain why KirklesWorth attacks Conservatives.

  39. Torcer says:

    So are you going go through your usual method of attacking Conservatives with long screeds over past events?

  40. Torcer says:

    So you Can’t answer that question.

    Is that why you initiated those attacks on me over a similar issue of President Trump moving Left?

  41. KirklesWorth says:

    Sorry, I didn’t realize you were Mr. Freemarket’s mouthpiece. I’m sorry that he’s incapable of speaking for himself. OOooooh…and what a scathing “attack” I made on him…ouch!

  42. KirklesWorth says:

    No, not conservatives – just anti-Trump supporters and Hillary lackies. But please conform to your own demands:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

  43. KirklesWorth says:

    So you are doing a 180° on these previous statements…got it.

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Are you decreeing the parameters of one’s free-speech?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Are you decreeing the parameters of one’s free-speech?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/24/2016) So do you want to decree what everyone can post?
    Torcer►762×51: (09/07/2016) Look at what animates them – Kirkles et al. are displaying a very authoritarian bent. It’s supposed to be a free-country where one can recommend or post whatever they want, and yet Kirkles et al. want that everyone accede to their demands or else that are and repeatedly incessantly attacked with all manner of childish invective and false charges.
    Torcer►Grumpy Cat: (09/08/2016) Amusing that it’s waste so much of it’s time studying meaningless numbers and disturbing that it has an authoritarian bent in trying to dictate what people can post.
    Torcer: (09/15/2016) It’s still a free country, and those of an authoritarian bent do not get to Dictate how one posts around here.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) So I take you aren’t one for the first amendment and all those other pesky freedoms then?

  44. Mr. Freemarket says:

    You seem to be mistaking President Trump for a conservative again.

    This is exactly what I was concerned about during the primary season; the fact that President Trump is not a conservative, nor does he support conservative positions on some issues.

    Let’s ask an important question:

    What is the difference between Trump moving left on healthcare and what would have happened were Hillary the president on the issue of Healthcare?

  45. Mr. Freemarket says:

    What do these posts have to do with the issue of Trump moving left on Healthcare?

  46. Torcer says:

    And as usual you didn’t directly address the issue at hand…

  47. KirklesWorth says:

    It has nothing to do with “Trump moving left on Healthcare” It has everything to do with Torcer requiring me to answer for Trump contrary to his/her previous statements that this is not a dictatorship.

  48. KirklesWorth says:

    What issue? You’ve proven no attack. You’ve proven no “long screeds”. Your rule is:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

  49. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth No, not conservatives – just anti-Trump supporters and Hillary lackies.

    Then please explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Hillary and the rest of the national Socialist Left.

    KirklesWorth But please conform to your own demands:
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

    Are you serious?
    You initialed countless attacks – are you denying this Fact?

    But since you made that demand, here is but one example:

    Torcer: (09/27/2017) And now we see it continue the tactic of attempting to confuse the reader with convoluted postings in one difficult to read paragraph. Hardly the behaviour of some who is confident in their assertions and is able to debate the issues

    Let me clear my throat as I address this…ahem…

    Hahahaha!!!
    Okay… (desperately trying to suppress the urge to laugh each time I read that)
    Hahahaha!!!!
    There will now be a 5 minute delay whilst I laugh uncontrollably……
    Seriously? ..here comes the laughter…
    Jajajajajajajaj!!!

    Poor Torcer can’t handle “convoluted postings” in “one difficult to read paragraph”. Hahahahaha!!! Nothing about the content or context, just the format. Condensing your multi-page screed into a single paragraph directly below your original post (of which you made a copy) is such a demand on the reader that it must be an obvious “tactic” instead of not forcing the reader to scroll through your line-after-line rant. The only “tactic” about it was identifying the fifteen times you called me “it”.

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Breath.. Hahahahahahaahahahahahaha!

    And you have the nerve to question me about arguing the “minutia[e]”:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/08/2017) Do you have some innate need to argue over minutia?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/08/2017) That is usually the case when in the discussion of minutia.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Do try and act like and adult and respond where everyone can see your actions.. unless you don’t like to be seen wasting people time in pointless debate over minutia..
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88282#comment-3540883256

  50. KirklesWorth says:

    You seem to be mistaking President Trump for a conservative again.

    I see no such claim. You are mistaken.

    What is the difference between Trump moving left on healthcare and what would have happened were Hillary the president on the issue of Healthcare?

    You tell me…you voted for Trump instead of Hillary.

  51. Torcer says:

    Why don’t you put more effort in addressing my question than Avoiding it:
    Perhaps for once we can try to elicit an honest and open opinion from KirklesWorth
    on this turn of events. This is more bad news for the cause of Liberty if President Trump sides with the Left on healthcare, so let see if it can actually add to the debate on the pressing and current issue.

    BREAKING: Trump says he will negotiate with DEMOCRATS on a new healthcare bill
    Trump now says he’s going to negotiate with Democrats to get an ‘even better’ healthcare bill passed

    I know Republicans have failed to do what they promised in repealing Obamacare and have also failed at passing Obamacare lite. They’ve completely failed all the way around. But if Trump intends on negotiating with Nancy and Chuck, then this is a terrible idea that will only make things worse. They are the ones who shoved Obamacare down our throats in the first place!

    If however he intends to negotiate with Democrats in Republican states, to bring them over to the Republican side on health care, then he might get something meaningful passed. But a bill that’s passed by even a few Democrats is likely to be worse than what we’ve already seen. If they aren’t fixing the inherent problems driving up the costs, then what’s the point.
    http://therightscoop.com/breaking-trump-says-he-will-negotiate-with-democrats-on-a-new-healthcare-bill/

  52. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth But please conform to your own demands:
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

    Are you serious?
    You initialed countless attacks – are you denying this Fact?

    But since you made that demand, here is but one example:

    Torcer: (09/27/2017) And now we see it continue the tactic of attempting to confuse the reader with convoluted postings in one difficult to read paragraph. Hardly the behaviour of some who is confident in their assertions and is able to debate the issues

    Let me clear my throat as I address this…ahem…

    Hahahaha!!!
    Okay… (desperately trying to suppress the urge to laugh each time I read that)
    Hahahaha!!!!
    There will now be a 5 minute delay whilst I laugh uncontrollably……
    Seriously? ..here comes the laughter…
    Jajajajajajajaj!!!

    Poor Torcer can’t handle “convoluted postings” in “one difficult to read paragraph”. Hahahahaha!!! Nothing about the content or context, just the format. Condensing your multi-page screed into a single paragraph directly below your original post (of which you made a copy) is such a demand on the reader that it must be an obvious “tactic” instead of not forcing the reader to scroll through your line-after-line rant. The only “tactic” about it was identifying the fifteen times you called me “it”.

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Breath.. Hahahahahahaahahahahahaha!

    And you have the nerve to question me about arguing the “minutia[e]”:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/08/2017) Do you have some innate need to argue over minutia?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/08/2017) That is usually the case when in the discussion of minutia.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Do try and act like and adult and respond where everyone can see your actions.. unless you don’t like to be seen wasting people time in pointless debate over minutia..
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88282#comment-3540883256

  53. Torcer says:

    Clearly it cannot address that question.
    Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Not to mention the fact that it cannot explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Clinton and her base ideology.

  54. Torcer says:

    No, the issue is Trump moving Left on Healthcare.
    You clearly cannot address that question and must somehow deflect the issue.

  55. KirklesWorth says:

    You claimed I “attacked” Mr. Freemarket. I did not. The only “conservative” you can claim I attacked is you – but that’s only when you questioned Trump supporters like a Hillary lackey.

  56. KirklesWorth says:

    Sorry, you citation is about you “>referring to me derogatorily as as “it” 15 times.

    As to the rest of it, I have no idea why you were willing to surrender to Hillary as president – but I certainly covered the various things you did to try and make it happen:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.

    Maybe it’s because you have always been a devout NeverTrumper from early on and got burned when Ted Cruz got snubbed. Here are anti-Trump articles you posted since Trump was the confirmed candidate. There were so many before this that Disqus choked and I’ll have to save them for some other time:

    Torcer: (06/20/2016) anti-Trump delegates raising money for staff and a legal defense fund
    Torcer: (06/20/2016) Hundreds of Republicans entertain anti-Trump effort
    Torcer: (06/22/2016) RNC Official VERY CONCERNED about anti-Trump delegate movement
    Torcer: (06/22/2016) RNC official claims party leaders are aiding anti-Trump delegates
    Torcer: (06/24/2016) WATCH: New anti-Trump TV ad encourages delegates to VOTE THEIR CONSCIENCE
    Torcer: (06/27/2016) Trump’s failed Baja condo resort left buyers feeling betrayed and angry
    Torcer: (06/27/2016) Trump’s failed Baja condo resort left buyers feeling betrayed and angry
    Torcer: (06/27/2016) WATCH: Steve Deace explains how Trump will lose in November if he remains the nominee
    Torcer: (06/27/2016) WATCH: Steve Deace explains how Trump will lose in November if he remains the nominee
    Torcer: (06/30/2016) Yet Another GOP Senator Goes #nevertrump, or at Least Pretty Darn Close
    Torcer: (07/01/2016) Silly season: Sarah Palin gets ‘splodey’ at #nevertrump
    Torcer: (07/01/2016) Sarah Palin has a MESSAGE for all you #nevertrumpers
    Torcer: (07/01/2016) anti-Trump group hasn’t given up on independent alternative
    Torcer: (07/02/2016) Forget the White House. Dump Trump to Save the Rest of the Ticket Is it time to Dump Trump? Long past, #nevertrumpers would say. Many of them in my vicinity have been wistfully speculating on the means, from convention coup to public-spirited time travelers, by which Donald Trump might be removed from the top of the Republican ticket.
    Torcer: (07/02/2016) #nevertrump peaking at the right time
    Torcer: (07/02/2016) Forget the White House. Dump Trump to Save the Rest of the Ticket Is it time to Dump Trump? Long past, #nevertrumpers would say. Many of them in my vicinity have been wistfully speculating on the means, from convention coup to public-spirited time travelers, by which Donald Trump might be removed from the top of the Republican ticket.
    Torcer: (07/02/2016) #nevertrump Peaking at the Right Time
    Torcer: (07/05/2016) Sarah Palin Calls #nevertrump “Traitors.” Here’s Why She Can Sod Off
    Torcer: (07/06/2016) #nevertrump Fires Back At Palin’s ‘Traitors’ Charge
    Torcer: (07/06/2016) Anti-Donald Trump Forces See Convention Coup as Within Reach
    Torcer: (07/10/2016) Whoah! anti-Trump forces seek rule change to SEIZE POWER to choose VP AWAY from him!!
    Torcer: (07/10/2016) BOOM! anti-Trump leader says enough votes to ‘FREE THE DELEGATES’!!
    Torcer: (07/11/2016) BOOM! anti-Trump leader says enough votes to ‘FREE THE DELEGATES’!!
    Torcer: (07/11/2016) BREAKING: VA ‘Never Trump’ Delegates NOT BOUND to Vote Trump by Law, Says Judge
    Torcer: (07/15/2016) STUPID: Trump and crew now gloating over #nevertrump defeat
    Torcer: (07/15/2016) Trump: #nevertrump was ‘crushed,’ ceases to exist
    Torcer: (07/16/2016) Hot Air reader survey: 28% still #nevertrump
    Torcer: (07/16/2016) anti-Trump fight is NOT OVER, says Mike Lee
    Torcer: (07/17/2016) How Trump’s #nevertrump adversaries lost it all in Cleveland
    Torcer: (07/17/2016) “Never Trump” Delegates Plan Convention Chaos
    Torcer: (07/19/2016) In response to those who say #nevertrump is pro-Hillary
    Torcer: (07/20/2016) From #nevertrump to #NeverGOP
    Torcer: (07/20/2016) Donald Trump’s Nomination According to #nevertrump in Tweets
    Torcer: (07/20/2016) Anti-Trump forces think they can get a candidate next week
    Torcer: (07/20/2016) WATCH: NY Times video NAILS why so many Republicans are anti-Trump
    Torcer: (07/20/2016) WATCH: NY Times video NAILS why so many Republicans are anti-Trump
    Torcer: (07/22/2016) No, #nevertrumpers Aren’t Morally Responsible For Hillary Clinton. Here’s Why.
    Torcer: (07/26/2016) WATCH: NY Times video NAILS why so many Republicans are anti-Trump
    Torcer: (07/27/2016) anti-Trump Republicans: Left Out of the Party
    Torcer: (08/04/2016) Trump has a NEW message for the #nevertrump movement
    Torcer: (08/04/2016) Who Will Be Blamed If Trump Implodes?
    Torcer: (08/05/2016) A #nevertrump Manifesto- Why I won’t be voting for President for the first time in my life
    Torcer: (08/05/2016) Who Will Be Blamed If Trump Implodes?
    Torcer: (08/10/2016) WATCH: Hannity just blamed #nevertrump for EVERYTHING bad Hillary’s gonna do!!
    Torcer: (08/11/2016) Something is going on with Donald Trump
    Torcer: (08/11/2016) Scarborough: I was never a Trump Supporter, I Was Just Telling Elites They Had Their Heads In The Sand.
    Torcer: (08/11/2016) Scarborough: I was never a Trump Supporter, I Was Just Telling Elites They Had Their Heads In The Sand.
    Torcer: (08/16/2016) WSJ editorial: If Trump can’t change his tune by Labor Day, the GOP should write him off
    Torcer: (08/16/2016) #nevertrump Crowd Is Not To Blame For Trump’s Failing Campaign
    Torcer: (08/16/2016) A Vote For Trump is a Vote For Hillary Clinton
    Torcer: (08/16/2016) A Response to @BradThor on Cancer and the #nevertrump Movement
    Torcer: (08/19/2016) Trump Supporters Try to Convince #nevertrump to Get on Board by Insulting Them
    Torcer: (08/20/2016) #thankstrumpers Republicans prep ‘break glass’ emergency plan as Trump tumbles
    Torcer: (08/26/2016) Hannity and Coulter STILL blame nevertrump and gop establishment for trumps schlonging
    Torcer: (08/26/2016) Hey nevertrumpers I’ve got a poll just for you
    Torcer: (08/27/2016) anti-Trump Republicans to launch swing-state ad buy
    Torcer: (08/31/2016) anti-Trump conservatives respond to Hannity saying he’ll blame them for Clinton victory
    Torcer: (09/09/2016) Questioning Trump’s Policies Will Not Make You a #nevertrump Clinton Supporter
    Torcer: (09/13/2016) ‘never trump’ Republicans standing firm
    Torcer: (09/13/2016) nevertrump for Dummies
    Torcer: (09/29/2016) #nevertrump #NeverHillary #NeverMind: A Convention of States Is the Answer
    Torcer: (09/29/2016) #nevertrump #NeverHillary #NeverMind: A Convention of States Is the Answer
    Torcer: (09/29/2016) #nevertrump #NeverHillary #NeverMind: A Convention of States Is the Answer
    Torcer: (10/17/2016) The Spirit of Scalia: “Originalist” Lawyers, Scholars Form anti-Trump Group
    Torcer: (10/19/2016) If you don’t Believe Donald Trump Is Delusional, Listen To This
    Torcer: (10/23/2016) Don’t Blame Never Trump
    Torcer: (10/25/2016) Don’t Blame Never Trump
    Torcer: (10/25/2016) #thankstrumpers Thanks to Trump, the Senate is looking to be a DISASTER for the GOP
    Torcer: (10/26/2016) #thankstrumpers NEW Associated Press poll shows MASSIVE landslide support for Hillary…
    Torcer: (10/26/2016) John Ziegler: If Trump Loses, We Must Control the Narrative With the Truth #thankstrumpers
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Shapiro at ‘National Review’: Time For #nevertrump and Reluctant Trump To Find Common Ground
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) “An Absolute Joke”: Pollster Remarks on Trump’s Sham Campaign #thankstrumpers
    Torcer: (10/28/2016) Never Clinton, never trump: A Principled Position
    Torcer: (10/29/2016) Don’t Blame Never Trump
    Torcer: (11/03/2016) How ‘never trump’ And Too-Early Endorsements Fueled His Nomination
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) Sean Hannity Thunders One Last Message for ‘Never-trumpers’ Before Election: ‘If Hillary Wins, You Will Own It!’
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) Who knew that Trump was once anti-Trump:
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) Who knew that Trump was once anti-Trump:
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) #ThanksTrumpers! They Always Wanted Trump
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) #thankstrumpers! They Gave Clinton What She Wanted
    Torcer: (11/08/2016) #thankstrumpers! Did The Democrats Help Trump?

  57. Torcer says:

    And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:

    BREAKING: Trump says he will negotiate with DEMOCRATS on a new healthcare bill
    http://therightscoop.com/breaking-trump-says-he-will-negotiate-with-democrats-on-a-new-healthcare-bill/

  58. Torcer says:

    I’m afraid you won’t get a straight answer on that score.
    It clearly cannot reveal too much and must resort to attacks based on past events.

  59. KirklesWorth says:

    For being a no-candidate Hillary lackey, you sure have ridiculous expectations of what you are “entitled to”. Just regurgitations of the same tactic:

    Torcer: (07/19/2016) …So can we apply the same to that which the Trump campaign has done to itself?
    Torcer: (07/19/2016) Can we attribute the myriad unforced errors made by Trump and his Trumpers as being an assist to Hillary?
    Torcer►Grumpy Cat: (07/21/2016) …So can we apply the same to that which the Trump campaign has done to itself?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Then please explain Trump’s unforced errors?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Face it, you cannot explain the man’s actions can you?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Face it – you cannot explain why the man is harming his own campaign with those actions.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Face it – you cannot explain why the man is harming his own campaign with those actions.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Face it – you cannot explain why the man is harming his own campaign with those actions.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Or are you going to deny that he hasn’t done that?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Then explain why Trump keeps on reviving controversies instead of focusing on getting his message out and winning?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) You’ve FAILED to do so AND explain Trumps incomprehensible actions.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) A I pointed out previously, such tactics are hardly conducive to someone supporting a candidate – and quite often have the opposite effect.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) You are the one supposedly advocating the Trump candidacy not I.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) You are the one who should be selling the his candidacy and yet you are here haranguing for it.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) The problem for you is that I can wait days if not weeks to inquire on the issue I raised about Trump’s actions.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) You are also aptly demonstrating that you would rather attack Conservative than try to sell Trump’s candidacy.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Since you purport to be a supporter of his, why don’t you lay out you case for his candidacy without invoking the name of Comrade Clinton?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) You are also aptly demonstrating that you would rather attack Conservative than try to sell Trump’s candidacy.Why don’t you try doing that without invoking the name ‘Hillary’
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) You are also aptly demonstrating that you would rather attack Conservative than try to sell Trump’s candidacy.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Why are you having so much trouble arguing arguing in favour of Donald?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Why are you having so much trouble arguing arguing in favour of Donald?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Do you actually have reasons to vote for Donald?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Why are you having so much trouble arguing arguing in favour of Donald?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016)
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Why are you having so much trouble arguing in favour of Donald?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Most people would recognize that one needs good reasons to support a candidate, and yet you fail to articulate them
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Now, were you were a TRUE Trump supporter you would have a number of reasons beyond your ‘republican candidate’ non-answer.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) What are your reasons to vote for Trump aside from Comrade Clinton.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/28/2016) Now is the time for you to sell Trump’s candidacy – IF YOU CAN. [Something OTHER than he’s the GOP Nominee]
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/28/2016) Face it, as a supposed Trump supporter you are FAILING to explain your rationale for voting for the man.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/28/2016) Face it, as a supposed Trump supporter you are FAILING to explain your rationale for voting for the man.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/28/2016) No, if you were a TRUE Trump supporter you would have a number of reasons beyond that non-answer.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/31/2016) Now is the time for you to sell Trump’s candidacy – IF YOU CAN. [Something OTHER than he’s the GOP Nominee]
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/31/2016) Now is the time for you to sell Trump’s candidacy – IF YOU CAN. [Something OTHER than he’s the GOP Nominee]
    Torcer►762×51: (08/01/2016) Despite repeated attempts to try and elicit answers as to why one should Trump – aside from the old standby involving Comrade Clinton.
    Torcer: (08/05/2016) Whilst still avoiding the task of actually trying to advocate the candidate it supposedly supports.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) One would think that a supporter would be bothered by this course of events, and yet you seem to not care – why is that the case
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/24/2016) Try addressing the substance of the article: MORE softening! Trump says NO AMNESTY but legalization with back taxes! (which is amnesty)
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) And how is what Trump is doing any different?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) The polling showed a different story – but were you selective on what you believed in that regard?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) No, what was the point of supporting Trump all along?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) The polling showed a different story – but were you selective on what you believed in that regard?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) And how is what Trump is doing any different?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) Jeb Trump is doing what you are condemning others for doing – how does that set with you?
    Torcer►Tom: (08/28/2016) So do Trump’s promises have exportation dates?
    Torcer►Tom: (08/28/2016) And that he wasn’t a politician – so how do you resolve this with his promises?
    Torcer►Tom: (08/28/2016) So do Trump’s promises have expiration dates?
    Torcer: (10/18/2016) BTW, what happened to Trump’s vaunted prowess at ‘playing the media’ hows that working out for you?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/18/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Stephen: (10/18/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/19/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Stephen: (10/19/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/19/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone onto support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►762×51: (10/23/2016) Part of my point on the line of bull from the Trumpers with regard to those who dared to oppose him is how is our opposition to him having any effect on the down-ballot races?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/26/2016) Why did Trump change from his winning strategy?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/26/2016) Why did Trump fail to prepare for the debates?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/26/2016) Why did Trump make continuous attacks on people distracting from his message?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/26/2016) Why did Trump stop fundraising?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/26/2016) Why is he starving funds from the down ballot races?
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Why is he starving funds from the down ballot races?
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Why did Trump fail to prepare for the debates?
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Why did Trump stop fundraising?
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Why did Trump make continuous attacks on people distracting from his message?
    Torcer: (10/27/2016) Why did Trump change from his winning strategy?
    Torcer►Johnny Monday: (10/28/2016) Clearly you cannot explain that phenomena without revealing that the man doesn’t want to win and that you and your fellow Trumpers have fallen for history’s biggest scam™
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) Why did Trump stop fundraising?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) Why is he starving funds from the down ballot races?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) Why did Trump make continuous attacks on people distracting from his message?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) Why did Trump fail to prepare for the debates?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) Why did Trump change from his winning strategy?
    Torcer►Feet2Fire: (10/28/2016) And there we have it folks – the Trumper cannot answer that vitally important question.
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/29/2016) BTW, How is the spewing of childish invective and falsehoods supposed to spur someone on to support YOUR candidate?
    Torcer►Fiberal: (12/23/2016) Are you going to criticize the man for that which you disagree?

  60. KirklesWorth says:

    Just keep calling me “it” and I will keep describing how you had surrendered to Hillary.

  61. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth
    You claimed I “attacked” Mr. Freemarket. I did not. The only “conservative” you can claim I attacked is you – but that’s only when you questioned Trump supporters like a Hillary lackey.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3541050587

    Ohh.. scare quotes, again you are implying something based on information you do not have – therefore it is False
    Again, you have failed Time and time again to explain my vehement opposition to the national socialist left and it’s leadership/

  62. KirklesWorth says:

    Please cite where I am obligated to provide a Hillary lackey with anything other than contempt and free reposts of their comments.

  63. Torcer says:

    Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question.

    Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Not to mention the fact that it cannot explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Clinton and her base ideology.

  64. Torcer says:

    Again the issue is Trump moving Left on Healthcare.

    And your answer Does not explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Clinton and her base ideology.
    TRY AGAIN.

  65. KirklesWorth says:

    So you lied with you said I “attacked” Mr. Freemarket. In terms of your questionable reasons for wanting Hillary, I’ve provided the evidence on how you wanted Trump defeated for her:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.

    How about your election swan song illustrating how you wanted Donald Trump to lose and surrendering to Hillary Clinton. We will call it the “We Tried to Inform You” post which was made the day before the election. This 11/07/2017 version of the spiel sets up Trump supporters as the scapegoats and anti-Trumpers as the “blameless heroes”:

    Torcer: (11/07/2016) At the conclusion of all of this, we who opposed Donald can hold our head high knowing that we made an INFORMED choice, you Trump supporters cannot. We will not be responsible for the resulting disaster, Those of you who made the uniformed decision to support him will be the ones responsible You choose to ignore the information in the media about the man.

    The rest of Torcer’s post will be rearranged into parts for easier analysis. But first it is important to review the history leading up to this monumental post. Torcer has posted variations of this “We Tried to Inform You” several times from May 2016 to the November 8th, 2016 election: (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60) – and this is more-or-less the final form accumulated from all of Torcer’s previous posts, and is hardly indicative of someone wanting Hillary to be defeated. Torcer spells out why Trump supporters were about to be declared “wrong” and the anti-Trumpers “told you so”:

    ● We tried to inform you that Donald isn’t a Conservative
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald changed parties at least 5 times
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald stated: “I’m very capable of changing to anything I want to change to”
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald is an habitual Liar – and projects that onto others
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald is a charlatan and a scam artist of the highest order and is in the middle of a fraud trial
    ● We tried to inform you of the polls and analysis that show Donald Losing in the general election
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald doesn’t care about the 1st amendment
    ● We tried to inform you of Donald’s Tabloid background
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald liked the Obamacare mandate
    ● We tried to inform you that the national socialist left desperately wanted Donald to be the nominee to lose to Comrade Clinton
    ● We tried to inform you that even if he doesn’t they win anyway since they know he’s a leftist
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald is being favored by the media – at the moment
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald advocates violence and intimidation tactics
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald is willing to work with the national socialist left
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald Is not Prepared for the General Election
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald was close to Bernie sanders in policy
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald doesn’t care about property rights
    ● We tried to inform you of Donald’s myriad business failures and bankruptcies
    ● We tried to inform you that Donald is a misogynist

    And then as the nail in the anti-Trump coffin and embracing a Hillary victory:

    ● Trump: I Believe in Raising Taxes on the Rich
    ● Donald Trump: The Chameleon
    ● Trump’s growing list of apostasies puts him at odds with decades of Republican beliefs
    ● Trump Says Cruz’s Father Shouldn’t Be ‘Allowed’ To Say Mean Things About Him
    ● Donald Trump (NY-R-I-D-R-NP-R) Has Twice Dumped The GOP, But Remains A Republican At Press Time
    ● TRUMP: “I’m very capable of changing to anything I want to change to
    ● Donald Trump may be a self-starter, but he’s not self-funded
    ● Lyin’ Donald: 101 Of Trump’s Greatest Lies
    ● Yuuge Lies
    ● Ben Shapiro: Donald Trump Is A Liar
    ● Big Colorado Lie
    ● 5 Scams Donald Trump Pulled On Americans That No One Knows About!
    ● Articles: The Art of the Con: the Trump U Fraud Case
    ● The Real Truth about Trump University
    ● CBS News Investigation: How Trump Network SCAMMED people during a recession
    ● Donald Trump’s 2009 Multi-Level Marketing Scam Blasted by CBS
    ● Add Another Yuuge Failure to Trump’s Pile: The Trump Network
    ● Insiders: Clinton would crush Trump in November
    ● Donald Trump’s chances against Hillary Clinton look far worse than Ted Cruz’s
    ● Electoral Map: A Clinton blowout, higher GOP ‘defection rate’
    ● FiveThirtyEight: Trump is the WEAKEST GOP front-runner in the modern era
    ● No, Trump can’t win
    ● A Vote For Trump is a Vote For Hillary Clinton: Why Trump Is A Sure Loser | RedState
    ● Trump Would ‘Absolutely…Open Up the Libel Laws’ So ‘A Person Like Me…Can Bring Lawsuits’
    ● Donald Trump: The Tabloid Years
    ● Donald Trump really said this: I like the Obamacare MANDATE
    ● ‘Proof there is a God’? Jim Messina senses divine intervention in GOP race
    ● Hoyer: Trump nomination would bring Dems ‘substantial’ gains
    ● Report: 46,000 Pa. Democrats Become Republicans Due To Trump
    ● Trump doing better in ‘open’ primaries; Cruz sees success in GOP-only contests
    ● AMAZING! 60,000 Democrats Voted in Virginia Republican Primary
    ● 20,000 Massachusetts Democrats switch parties before Super Tuesday
    ● Jimmy Carter: I’d pick Trump over Cruz
    ● A liberal case for Donald Trump: The lesser of two evils is not at all clear in 2016
    ● Ted Cruz Targets Trump: 13 Issues Where He Agees With Clinton | Video
    ● 5 reasons Ted Cruz is even more dangerous than Donald Trump
    ● Reid praises Trump for being ‘authentic’
    ● Reid: ‘I’m kind of pulling’ for Trump
    ● Liberal Writer: Don’t Worry, Trump’s A Liberal
    ● Donald Trump Is No Revolutionary, He’s Just a Democrat
    ● TV News Touts Trump, Crushes Cruz and Gives Bernie a Shot at Hillary
    ● The Prime Time Primary: Trump vs. His Rivals on Cable News
    ● Trump Gets A Whopping 5 Times More Airtime Than Cruz On Major Networks
    ● Hot Mic Captures Trump Asking ‘Morning Joe’ Hosts For No ‘Too Hard’ Questions (AUDIO)
    ● Former CNN Anchor: Yes, TV Networks Deserve Blame for the Rise of Trump

  66. Torcer says:

    Ah yes, now we’re into the realm of circular logic.

    Definition of circular
    adjective
    2 Logic (Of an argument) already containing an assumption of what is to be proved, and therefore fallacious.
    https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/circular?

    You haven’t PROVEN you contention.
    You haven’t explained my vehement opposition to the national socialist Left and it’s leadership.

    TRY AGAIN.

  67. Torcer says:

    Please explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Hillary and the rest of the national Socialist Left.

    Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.

  68. Torcer says:

    What are your referring to?
    Do you understand that that is a subjective standard.
    That there is a vast difference between fact and opinion?

    TRY AGAIN

  69. KirklesWorth says:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) One word: Decaff This is a case where someone doesn’t try to win in the marketplace of ideas and just attempts to shout down the opposing voices. But do keep up with your obsession with the past and wasting time with long screeds that no one cares about. And Keep up showing that you have plenty of time to waste cutting and pasting items from old postings.

    Any “attacks” you claim are self-induced.

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

  70. KirklesWorth says:

    Your lack of comprehension is not my problem. You TRY AGAIN.

    Oh, you mean opinions like these:

    Torcer►Fiberal: (03/16/2016) We oppose Trump because he is going to lose in the general election based on the polls.
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/03/2016) What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose?
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/04/2016) Again: What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose? You can expect to see this question UNTIL you answer it.
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/04/2016) Again: What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose? You can expect to see this question UNTIL you answer it.
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Again: What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose? You can expect to see this question UNTIL you answer it.
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Again: What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose? You can expect to see this question UNTIL you answer it.
    Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Again: What is the point in nominating Trump when the polls show he is going to lose? You can expect to see this question UNTIL you answer it.
    Torcer: (05/01/2016) It should be clear that those who ignore the manifest evidence that Donald will LOSE to Comrade Clinton are Leftists who want that result.
    Torcer: (06/15/2016) (entire post)
    Torcer►OldSailor: (06/17/2016) The polls show that Trump is going to LOSE.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) The problem for you is that I can wait days if not weeks to inquire on the issue I raised about Trump’s actions.
    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (08/07/2016) My guess is that Trump will flame out so badly that my vote won’t even matter..
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/08/2016) Given that it appears that the point of Trump’s candidacy is a Comrade Clinton win those supporting Trump by extension are supporting her.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) Again:Trump’s campaign is sinking and you don’t think they should try something else to salvage it?
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) And thanks to Trump supporters the odds are he going to lose when we should have won running away….
    Torcer►F350: (08/25/2016) And thanks to Trump supporters the odds are he going to LOSE when we should have won running away….
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/18/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Stephen: (10/18/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/19/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Stephen: (10/19/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/19/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/20/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►TrojanMan: (10/26/2016) Exactly – had the Trumpers taken the time to become INFORMED they would have realised that he was a deeply flawed candidate who had no chance of winning.
    Torcer►TrojanMan: (10/26/2016) Trump is a deeply flawed candidate without any disciple or sufficient ground game who will lose because of his actions.
    Torcer►Alphamail: (10/29/2016) Given that he’s down in the polls and is going to lose anyway, why not vote on principle and give it a go with the 3rd party choices?
    Torcer►BlackJack007: (09/08/2017) This ranges from denying the true nature of their philosophy to lying about it when it fails to even changing the colours that signify the two sides:

  71. KirklesWorth says:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

  72. KirklesWorth says:

    You TRY AGAIN.

    Please cite where I am obligated to provide a Hillary lackey with anything other than contempt and free reposts of their comments.

  73. KirklesWorth says:

    Again:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

  74. Torcer says:

    I can appreciate your position here – you have to avoid saying too much or engaging in debate, so you assail everyone with endless postings of what they have said in the past as cover for that lack of debate.

    You have to accuse others of what you do in spades in order to muddy the waters and confuse everyone as to who you truly are.

  75. Torcer says:

    Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question.

    Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Not to mention the fact that it cannot explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Clinton and her base ideology.

  76. Torcer says:

    Remember that long screed when you DEMAND that someone prove you use them to avoid addressing the issue at present.

  77. Torcer says:

    How do you have so much time to wast endlessly posting those long screeds?

  78. Torcer says:

    More of you wasting time avoiding debate……….

  79. KirklesWorth says:

    Time for Torcer’s favorite rules:

    Rule 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” This is best illustrate by a list of Torcer trying to throw his/her weight around with demands and orders (below).
    Rule 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” Torcer refers to this rule here. Torcer was recently called out on this for referring to me with the derogatory pronoun “it”..
    Rule 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” Torcer must certainly enjoy the thread restarting tactic.
    Rule 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Which is why Torcer resorts to the aforementioned thread restarting tactic.
    Rule 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Another example of the aforementioned thread restarting tactic.
    Rule 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Torcer referred to this rule here, here, here, here. Most posts from Torcer to KirklesWorth illustrate the use of this rule.

    And there is Torcer‘s recent addition of Decaff:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) One word: Decaff This is a case where someone doesn’t try to win in the marketplace of ideas and just attempts to shout down the opposing voices. But do keep up with your obsession with the past and wasting time with long screeds that no one cares about. And Keep up showing that you have plenty of time to waste cutting and pasting items from old postings.

    But Torcer can call this thread restarting tactic his/her own:

    ● Go to an old or stale thread.
    ● Post a “final comment”.
    ● Start a new attack thread with cherry-picked quotes void of context and references.
    ● Hope your opponent doesn’t know you are jumping to [a] new thread(s).
    ● If opponent replies to an old thread, cry “Help! Help! I’m being attacked on an old thread!” even though nobody would know or care.

    Here are the restarted threads for the month of September, 2017 (so far):

    1. Torcer: (09/09/2017) Can anyone figure what exactly her point is here – aside from arguing minutia?
    2. Torcer: (09/11/2017) Sadly, there are some around here who have forgotten how to act as an adult and engage in a have a pleasant conversation over the issues of the day.
    3. Torcer: (09/13/2017) Why are there some around here who obsess over non-existent issues?
    4. Torcer: (09/13/2017) KirklesWorth How did that score? Let’s review the checklist:
    5. Torcer: (09/13/2017) Do you even understand the meanings of the words I used or that random data is based on the actions of someone else?
    6. Torcer: (09/13/2017) KirklesWorth And what is this so-called “incorrect behavior”
    7. Torcer: (09/15/2017) Does anyone else find it extremely disturbing that there are those here who have no moral compunction over a disingenuous mischaracterization of someone’s position?
    8. Torcer: (09/15/2017) Everyone should note that KirklesWorth has to avoid putting forward an intellectual argument, lest it reveal too much
    9. Torcer: (09/19/2017) Once again KirklesWorth is incapable of debating current events in an intellectual level and instead was off to the races posting a long screed steeped in past events.
    10. Torcer: (09/19/2017) Some of us are busying creating lesson plans and writing papers, and we don’t have time to waste arguing minutia.
    11. Torcer: (09/19/2017) And once again KirklesWorth is initiating pointless attacks on an old thread:
    12. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Seriously? ..here comes the laughter… okay… are you unaware of you own actions?
    13. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Does anyone else find it interesting that KirklesWorth cannot seem to talk about recent events such as President Trump’s speech before the UN [One of his best]
    14. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Again – try reading the entire post including the excerpts of your attacks on old threads:
    15. Torcer: (09/26/2017) Okay class, here we have so many teachable moments and so little time…
    16. Torcer: (09/27/2017) Note that it originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads.
    17. Torcer: (09/27/2017) Perhaps for once we can try to elicit an honest and open opinion from @kirklesworth on this turn of events.

    Torcer‘s demands, orders, arrogance, etc.:

    762×51►Fiberal: (12/08/2015) Now go potty and get to bed. The street lights are on and it’s past your bedtime, junior.
    762×51►Fiberal: (03/27/2016) I told you that you had to prove to me that you would actually show up before I decide to give you another chance. Begging is in order.
    762×51►Tom: (05/21/2016) my world you have to be able to back up what you say and be prepared to defend yourself for the insults you hurl at others.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) And that DOESN’T answer the question – TRY AGAIN
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Okay let’s see those reasons.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Again: Let’s see those reasons.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Let’s hear those reasons.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/28/2016) Now is the time for you to sell Trump’s candidacy – IF YOU CAN. [Something OTHER than he’s the GOP Nominee]
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/31/2016) Perhaps you should read what I wrote.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) Now hop to it and answer them.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) Now hop to it and answer them.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) No, YOU made that contention YOU have to back it up with FACTS.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) No, You have to address my questions on YOU incendiary accusations FIRST instead of dodging them:
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) You have to address my questions on YOU incendiary accusations FIRST instead of dodging them:
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) You have to address my questions on YOU incendiary accusations FIRST instead of dodging them:
    Torcer: (09/02/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/03/2016) So hop to it.
    Torcer: (09/03/2016) You have to address my questions on YOU incendiary accusations instead of dodging them:
    Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) You still have not proven the veracity of you previous baseless charges with a proper set of Excerpts and links.
    Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) You still have not proven the veracity of you previous baseless charges with a proper set of Excerpts and links.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) Perhaps you should realize that if you issue such incendiary accusations you will have to back them up with Factual data in the form of excepts and links.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) YOU are making the accusation, YOU are the one REQUIRED to back it up.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) YOU are making the accusation, YOU are the one REQUIRED to back it up.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) Perhaps you should realize that if you issue such incendiary accusations you will have to back them up with Factual data in the form of excepts and links.
    Torcer: (01/16/2017) Just in case you haven’t discerned this from previous comments, you answers will include direct quotes of my stating what you had claimed. If you cannot produce said exact quotes, your assertions are invalid and you have once again lose the argument.
    Torcer: (02/07/2017) Just in case you haven’t discerned this from previous comments, you answers will include direct quotes of my stating what you had claimed. If you cannot produce said exact quotes, your assertions are invalid and you have once again lose the argument.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) TRY AGAIN.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) TRY AGAIN.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Stop dodging the question:
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Stop dodging the question:
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/19/2017) You will have to prove that with an excerpt and link.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/19/2017) Try reading what someone has posted instead of wasting time searching old meaningless data based on random events.
    Torcer: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…
    Torcer: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) Go back and look at what you posted in old threads…

  80. KirklesWorth says:

    #1 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  81. KirklesWorth says:

    #2 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  82. KirklesWorth says:

    #3 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  83. Torcer says:

    And now instead of debating the issue it trots outs ‘Rules for Radicals’ and desperately tries to accuse other of what is does.

    Clearly we are dealing with someone without any moral grounding..

    And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:

    BREAKING: Trump says he will negotiate with DEMOCRATS on a new healthcare bill
    http://therightscoop.com/breaking-trump-says-he-will-negotiate-with-democrats-on-a-new-healthcare-bill/

  84. KirklesWorth says:

    #4 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  85. KirklesWorth says:

    That’s a laugh – a Hillary lackey talking about “moral grounding”. Clearly you can’t deny your Alinsky rules usage, so you use some more Alinsky rules. Clever! I’ve got to update my list that consists of:

    Torcer‘s random” anti-Trump article tips.
    Torcer‘s desire to avoid/ignore the past.
    Torcer‘s thread-restarting obsession with KirklesWorth.
    Torcer‘s whine about “civil debate while using the derogatory pronoun “it” against others.
    ● Torcer’s whining about the minutia[e] of a cited post.

    It’s going to get almost as long as your Hillary-helping list:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

  86. Torcer says:

    And now we’re down to the the originator of attacks against Conservatives wasting time hurling a blizzard of postings.

    Everyone should note that it is wasting more time trying to AVOID debate on the issue than it would were it to do so……

    …Which only deepens the mystery of why the originator of attacks against Conservatives is here…

  87. Torcer says:

    Please explain my vehement opposition to Comrade Hillary and the rest of the national Socialist Left.

    Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.

  88. Torcer says:

    More avoidance….

  89. Torcer says:

    I can appreciate your position here – you have to avoid saying too much or engaging in debate, so you assail everyone with endless postings of what they have said in the past as cover for that lack of debate.

    You have to accuse others of what you do in spades in order to muddy the waters and confuse everyone as to who you truly are.

  90. KirklesWorth says:

    You can keep trying to start new threads to run away, but there’s no running from your Hillary-helping past and documented tactics:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

    Torcer’s tactics:

    Torcer‘s “random” anti-Trump article tips.
    Torcer‘s desire to avoid/ignore the past.
    Torcer‘s thread-restarting obsession with KirklesWorth.
    Torcer‘s whine about “civil debate while using the derogatory pronoun “it” against others.
    ● Torcer’s whining about the minutia[e] of a cited post.
    ● Torcer’s Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” usage and lack of denial.

    Torcer’s thread-restart tactic list:

    1. Torcer: (09/09/2017) Can anyone figure what exactly her point is here – aside from arguing minutia?
    2. Torcer: (09/11/2017) Sadly, there are some around here who have forgotten how to act as an adult and engage in a have a pleasant conversation over the issues of the day.
    3. Torcer: (09/13/2017) Why are there some around here who obsess over non-existent issues?
    4. Torcer: (09/13/2017) KirklesWorth How did that score? Let’s review the checklist:
    5. Torcer: (09/13/2017) Do you even understand the meanings of the words I used or that random data is based on the actions of someone else?
    6. Torcer: (09/13/2017) KirklesWorth And what is this so-called “incorrect behavior”
    7. Torcer: (09/15/2017) Does anyone else find it extremely disturbing that there are those here who have no moral compunction over a disingenuous mischaracterization of someone’s position?
    8. Torcer: (09/15/2017) Everyone should note that KirklesWorth has to avoid putting forward an intellectual argument, lest it reveal too much
    9. Torcer: (09/19/2017) Once again KirklesWorth is incapable of debating current events in an intellectual level and instead was off to the races posting a long screed steeped in past events.
    10. Torcer: (09/19/2017) Some of us are busying creating lesson plans and writing papers, and we don’t have time to waste arguing minutia.
    11. Torcer: (09/19/2017) And once again KirklesWorth is initiating pointless attacks on an old thread:
    12. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Seriously? ..here comes the laughter… okay… are you unaware of you own actions?
    13. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Does anyone else find it interesting that KirklesWorth cannot seem to talk about recent events such as President Trump’s speech before the UN [One of his best]
    14. Torcer: (09/20/2017) Again – try reading the entire post including the excerpts of your attacks on old threads:
    15. Torcer: (09/26/2017) Okay class, here we have so many teachable moments and so little time…
    16. Torcer: (09/27/2017) Note that it originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads.
    17. Torcer: (09/27/2017) Perhaps for once we can try to elicit an honest and open opinion from @kirklesworth on this turn of events.
    18. Torcer: (09/27/2017)And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:

  91. KirklesWorth says:

    #6 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  92. KirklesWorth says:

    #7 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  93. KirklesWorth says:

    #8 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  94. Torcer says:

    And you very aptly proving to everyone that you cannot debate the issues and have to project those tactics on others.

    Odd that you are well familiar with them…

  95. KirklesWorth says:

    #9 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  96. Torcer says:

    You’re the one AVOIDING the issue….

  97. KirklesWorth says:

    #10 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  98. Torcer says:

    What is this supposed to be? Some sort mass attack of BS [Bernie Sanders] to continually AVOID debate?

    How can you waste so much time in your pointless endeavours?

  99. Torcer says:

    What is this supposed to be? Some sort mass attack of BS [Bernie Sanders] to continually AVOID debate?

    How can you waste so much time in your pointless endeavours?

  100. Torcer says:

    What is this supposed to be? Some sort mass attack of BS [Bernie Sanders] to continually AVOID debate?

    How can you waste so much time in your pointless endeavours?

  101. Torcer says:

    What is this supposed to be? Some sort mass attack of BS [Bernie Sanders] to continually AVOID debate?

    How can you waste so much time in your pointless endeavours?

  102. Torcer says:

    What is this supposed to be? Some sort mass attack of BS [Bernie Sanders] to continually AVOID debate?

    How can you waste so much time in your pointless endeavours?

  103. KirklesWorth says:

    #11 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  104. KirklesWorth says:

    #12 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  105. KirklesWorth says:

    #13 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  106. KirklesWorth says:

    #14 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  107. KirklesWorth says:

    #15 You (again) started a new thread. My response is here.

  108. KirklesWorth says:

    Poor baby. If you don’t want to practice what you preach, it’s no skin off of my nose.

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Are you decreeing the parameters of one’s free-speech?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Are you decreeing the parameters of one’s free-speech?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/24/2016) So do you want to decree what everyone can post?
    Torcer►762×51: (09/07/2016) Look at what animates them – Kirkles et al. are displaying a very authoritarian bent. It’s supposed to be a free-country where one can recommend or post whatever they want, and yet Kirkles et al. want that everyone accede to their demands or else that are and repeatedly incessantly attacked with all manner of childish invective and false charges.
    Torcer►Grumpy Cat: (09/08/2016) Amusing that it’s waste so much of it’s time studying meaningless numbers and disturbing that it has an authoritarian bent in trying to dictate what people can post.
    Torcer: (09/15/2016) It’s still a free country, and those of an authoritarian bent do not get to Dictate how one posts around here.
    Torcer: (11/16/2016) So I take you aren’t one for the first amendment and all those other pesky freedoms then?

  109. TheChaoticStorm says:

    These clowns officially have no clue why or what they are protesting anymore. Kneeling during the National Anthem is disrespectful. THIS, however, is completely disgraceful and this person deserves to be outed. SHAMEFUL.

    http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/09/picture-of-man-kneeling-during-taps-at-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-is-sparking-outrage-following-nfl-protests/

  110. KHarn says:

    AMERICANS DON’T KNEEL!
    Even during the anti-bellum days, slaves were NOT REQUIRED to bow or kneel before their owners.

    “Its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.”
    Emiliano Zapata

  111. KHarn says:

    Thing is, they make a MACHINE to pick cotton, now.

    Now get those over-paid, spoiled brats off my land!

  112. KHarn says:

    It’s the baseball strike all over again. People are learning that they DON’T CARE about a bunch of over-paid prima donnas.

    If anyone needs their football fix, there are recorded games they can watch.

  113. Anonymous says:

    HR has usually not just drunk the Kool Aid but freebased it too…
    https://s21.postimg.org/dpn4thfrr/D2020_L.jpg

  114. KHarn says:

    YOU KIDS STOP THAT OR I’M TURNING THIS WEBSITE AROUND AND TAKING YOU HOME!

  115. KirklesWorth says:

    You seem to have some sort of persecution complex. As I explained before, what I do is defend Trump supporters from anti-Trumpers and Hillary lackeys. Feel free to cite otherwise. If anybody were to have “attacked” you for being a conservative, it would probably be for the anti-Trump articles you posted…yet that didn’t happen:

    Torcer: (09/11/2017) Disaster: trump Looks to Follow Democrats to Abolish Debt Ceiling Altogether [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/11/2017) trump-Democrat deal makes national debt POLE VAULT past $20 TRILLION!! [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/09/2017) OUCH: Ann Coulter Burns trump Again … Painfully [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) If Only Someone Had Warned Them! [Several replies, all cordial]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) At this point, who DOESN’T want trump impeached? [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) ‘Amnesty Don’: trump’s Base Reacts to the Pelosi-Schumer DACA Deal (2) Laura Ingraham scolds trump: ‘When does American working class’ get amnesty? (3) Sean Hannity Blames McConnell for trump’s Deal with Dems (4) ‘Amnesty Don’ Trends at Number One on Twitter in Washington, D.C. – Breitbart (5) WHOA: Ann Coulter all but calls for trump to be impeached over DACA [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) Trump: ‘The Wall Will Come Later’ [VIDEO] trump-the-wall-will-come-later (2) FLIP: Schumer and Pelosi Announce Hot New Deal on DACA With trump trump (3) President trump made a big concession to Democrats in DACA bill talks (4) Christine Rousselle – DACA Deal Reached; No Wall, Border Security Instead (5) Report: trump Caves on DACA, Wants ‘Quick’ Amnesty for 800K Illegal Aliens – Breitbart (6) Breitbart labels trump ‘Amnesty Don’ after Dems claim DACA deal [0 replies]

    You also said:

    Torcer: (09/14/2017) Now, now Dave… mentioning Hillary means you wanted her to win so that it would trigger some sort of crisis or something… /sarc. [0 replies]

    Look at these histrionics (over and over) just recently:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/20/2017) Again – try reading the entire post including the excerpts of your attacks on old threads:
    Torcer►TED: (09/20/2017) This is a person who has no qualms about making things up or outright lying. It’s modus operandi is to initiate attacks on old threads as retribution for anyone daring to disagree with it. And it has no computations over projecting it’s tactics on others. It tends to not want to engage in debate or respond directly to comments so it is difficult to determine it’s political leanings. While it may seem to be of a certain ideology, it does tend to attack those on the Right, so why is that the case?
    Torcer►TED: (09/21/2017) One does have to wonder why it is incessantly attacking those of us on the Conservative Right…
    Torcer►TED: (09/25/2017) The central question with regard to the mysterious KirklesWorth is why does it attack those who are ostensibly on it’s side? And does it do so in ways that are hidden away – i.e. initiating attacks on old threads? If it had a valid disagreement with someone, why doesn’t it do it out in the open? Why plague someone with pointless attacks on old threads that merely serve to waste someone’s time?
    Torcer: (09/27/2017) Note that it originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads. KirklesWorth You are obviously oblivious to the use of your own tactics Okay, everyone… today’s word is irony in that it originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads.
    Torcer►Mr. Freemarket: (09/28/2017) It also explain why KirklesWorth attacks Conservatives.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) So are you going go through your usual method of attacking Conservatives with long screeds over past events?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Is that why you initiated those attacks on me over a similar issue of President Trump moving Left?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Before you demand that I address your post – you need to respond to this:Note that it originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) You initialed countless attacks – are you denying this Fact?
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) You initialed countless attacks – are you denying this Fact?
    Torcer►Mr. Freemarket: (09/28/2017) Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Torcer: (09/28/2017) And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:
    Torcer►Mr. Freemarket: (09/28/2017) It clearly cannot reveal too much and must resort to attacks based on past events.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question. Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question. Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:
    Torcer: (09/28/2017) And now we’re down to the the originator of attacks against Conservatives wasting time hurling a blizzard of postings. Everyone should note that it is wasting more time trying to AVOID debate on the issue than it would were it to do so…… …Which only deepens the mystery of why the originator of attacks against Conservatives is here…
    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/28/2017) Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.

    The “attack” you complain about is actually an accurate assesment of a poll-spouting Hillary-helping so-called “conservative who had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary who was trying to shake your obvious history of zeal to get Trump defeated for Hillary and that I don’t suffer Hillary lackeys gladly. Plus I reposted other people’s comments about your anti-Trump / pro-Hillary tendencies and pointed out your polls-obsession to try and get people to allow a Hillary presidency because that’s what you wanted.

    And I have provided plenty of excerpts, links, facts, proof etc. to back up my “incendiary accusation”:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.

  116. Mr. Freemarket says:

    I far prefer college football games to those played at the professional level.

    It seems like the pros don’t really care.

  117. Mr. Freemarket says:

    He worked hard to develop his software tools that he can use to search past posts. And it is quite handy if you tend to like to attack others.

    Why one would spend the time and effort to develop such a tool is somewhat of a mystery. I’ve got a lot more important things demanding my time.

  118. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Some people seem to be confused about the fact that one can be lukewarm on Trump yet not support Hillary.

    As if they were our only (and best) choices.

  119. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Yes, I reluctantly voted for Trump, hoping that he wouldn’t embrace his inner-liberal once elected. I was told time and again by Trump supporters about how conservative he really was. And I was hounded by Trump supporters when I supported more conservative candidates than Trump.

    Sadly it seems that I am to be disappointed by both President Trump as well as many of his supporters…..who seems to feel they are doing God’s work by attacking those who point out discrepancies between positions Trump takes and what would have been considered the “conservative” position on issues.

  120. Mr. Freemarket says:

    You are a big Trump supporter, or at least you were. Now that Trump has been elected and we must deal with the aftermath, Torcer is simply asking how you feel at being “used.”

  121. KirklesWorth says:

    You aren’t being “attacked” nor are you attacking Trump supporters. There is no “mystery” about why this came about – it was Torcer’s and mad dog’s demands for excerpts, facts, proofs, etc.

    1. Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Be sure to include plenty EXCERPTS and Links from authentic reference sites in your answers.
    2. Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Let’s see you produce a contravening argument with factual analysis.
    3. Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Be sure to include plenty EXCERPTS and Links from authentic reference sites in your answers..
    4. Torcer►mauser 98: (04/05/2016) Let’s see you produce a contravening argument with factual analysis.
    5. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) You will have to cite a except of my using that term.
    6. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Please cite where I mentioned that term.
    7. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) You will have to post an except of my using that term.
    8. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Please post an excerpt where I stated that which you are claiming.
    9. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Except please.
    10. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Again: Please post an excerpt where I stated that which you are claiming.
    11. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Please post an excerpt of those questions
    12. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Except please.
    13. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Again – you have to cite where I brought that up.
    14. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) Except please.
    15. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) Please cite the FACTS to back up this assertion of yours.
    16. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) Please cite the FACTS to back up this assertion of yours.
    17. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) Please cite the FACTS to back up this assertion of yours.
    18. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/25/2016) Please cite the FACTS to back up this assertion of yours.
    19. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/26/2016) Please cite the FACTS to back up this assertion of yours.
    20. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Please list out the reasons you supported them during that time period.
    21. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Please post an excerpt of when you have answered that question.
    22. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Let’s see you backup that incendiary lie.
    23. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Please post an excerpt of when you have answered that question.
    24. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) You claimed that you could cite those reasons:
    25. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) You made the claim, YOU have to back it up
    26. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/27/2016) Again: Let’s see those reasons.
    27. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/31/2016) If that’s the case the it should be EASY for you to re-post the excerpt of where you answered these questions:
    28. Torcer: (08/19/2016) Be sure to include plenty EXCERPTS and Links from authentic reference sites in your answer.
    29. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) Please cite how the polls are incorrect with facts and logic – If you can.
    30. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (08/20/2016) so perhaps you should back that up with answered instead of other questions.
    31. Torcer: (09/03/2016) These facts will be in the form of EXCERPTS and Links from the proper sources in your answer.
    32. Torcer: (09/03/2016) These facts will be in the form of EXCERPTS and Links from the proper sources in your answer.
    33. Torcer: (09/04/2016) These facts will be in the form of EXCERPTS and Links from the proper sources in your answer.
    34. Torcer: (09/04/2016) IF you are going to make such an incendiary and FALSE accusation you had better be ready to back it up with FACTS to prove your FALSE accusation.
    35. Torcer►Grumpy Cat: (09/06/2016) IF you are going to make such an incendiary and FALSE accusation you had better be ready to back it up with FACTS to prove your FALSE accusation.
    36. Torcer: (09/08/2016) Then it should be able to produce the FACTS that backup it’s charges with FACTS considting of Excepts and links to the proper sources.
    37. Torcer: (09/08/2016) And of course we see again how it loves to spew falsehoods that fails to back up with FACTS
    38. Torcer: (09/08/2016) Then it should be able to produce the FACTS that backup it’s charges with FACTS considting of Excepts and links to the proper sources.
    39. Torcer: (09/08/2016) And of course we see again how it loves to spew falsehoods that fails to back up with FACTS
    40. Torcer►Alphamail: (10/29/2016) And if you are going to make such incendiary charges you had better be ready to post specific excerpts to back up your claims.
    41. Torcer: (10/29/2016) And if you are going to make such incendiary charges you had better be ready to post specific excerpts to back up your claims.
    42. Torcer►Fiberal: (10/30/2016) Please post an excerpt in you answer else your credibility will have been eviscerated.
    43. Torcer: (10/31/2016) Please post an excerpt in you answer else your credibility will have been eviscerated.
    44. Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) You still have not proven the veracity of you previous baseless charges with a proper set of Excerpts and links.
    45. Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) And if you are going to make such incendiary charges you had better be ready to post specific excerpts to back up your claims.
    46. Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) And if you are going to make such incendiary charges you had better be ready to post specific excerpts to back up your claims.
    47. Torcer►Alphamail: (11/09/2016) You still have not proven the veracity of you previous baseless charges with a proper set of Excerpts and links.
    48. Torcer: (11/16/2016) Perhaps you should realize that if you issue such incendiary accusations you will have to back them up with Factual data in the form of excepts and links.
    49. Torcer: (11/16/2016) YOU are making the accusation, YOU are the one REQUIRED to back it up.
    50. Torcer: (11/16/2016) YOU are making the accusation, YOU are the one REQUIRED to back it up.
    51. Torcer: (11/16/2016) Perhaps you should realize that if you issue such incendiary accusations you will have to back them up with Factual data in the form of excepts and links.
    52. Torcer: (01/16/2017) Just in case you haven’t discerned this from previous comments, you answers will include direct quotes of my stating what you had claimed. If you cannot produce said exact quotes, your assertions are invalid and you have once again lose the argument.
    53. Torcer: (02/07/2017) Just in case you haven’t discerned this from previous comments, you answers will include direct quotes of my stating what you had claimed. If you cannot produce said exact quotes, your assertions are invalid and you have once again lose the argument.
    54. Torcer: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    55. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    56. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    57. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    58. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    59. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Are your links supposed to prove something?
    60. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) You made a statement that has to be backed with facts, and yet you failed to do so, it that why you play your little link game?
    61. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    62. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    63. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.
    64. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts.
    65. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    66. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Please do everyone the courtesy of writing it out.
    67. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) What FACTUAL items do you have?
    68. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts.
    69. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.
    70. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts.
    71. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.
    72. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Please provide an except and directly answer the question for once.
    73. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Please provide an except and directly answer the question for once.
    74. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Please provide an except and directly answer the question for once.
    75. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) Please provide an except and directly answer the question for once.
    76. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/15/2017) You will have to prove that with an excerpt and link.
    77. Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/19/2017) You will have to prove that with an excerpt and link.

  122. KirklesWorth says:

    Sorry about paragraph one. As I told Torcer, nobody is “attacking” people for pointing out Trump’s shortcomings – just for implying that Trump supporters made a mistake for voting Trump to prevent Hillary from winning. I provided Torcer with this analysis:

    If anybody were to have “attacked” you for being a conservative, it would probably be for the anti-Trump articles you posted…yet that didn’t happen:

    Torcer: (09/11/2017) Disaster: trump Looks to Follow Democrats to Abolish Debt Ceiling Altogether [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/11/2017) trump-Democrat deal makes national debt POLE VAULT past $20 TRILLION!! [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/09/2017) OUCH: Ann Coulter Burns trump Again … Painfully [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) If Only Someone Had Warned Them! [Several replies, all cordial]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) At this point, who DOESN’T want trump impeached? [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) ‘Amnesty Don’: trump’s Base Reacts to the Pelosi-Schumer DACA Deal (2) Laura Ingraham scolds trump: ‘When does American working class’ get amnesty? (3) Sean Hannity Blames McConnell for trump’s Deal with Dems (4) ‘Amnesty Don’ Trends at Number One on Twitter in Washington, D.C. – Breitbart (5) WHOA: Ann Coulter all but calls for trump to be impeached over DACA [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) Trump: ‘The Wall Will Come Later’ [VIDEO] trump-the-wall-will-come-later (2) FLIP: Schumer and Pelosi Announce Hot New Deal on DACA With trump trump (3) President trump made a big concession to Democrats in DACA bill talks (4) Christine Rousselle – DACA Deal Reached; No Wall, Border Security Instead (5) Report: trump Caves on DACA, Wants ‘Quick’ Amnesty for 800K Illegal Aliens – Breitbart (6) Breitbart labels trump ‘Amnesty Don’ after Dems claim DACA deal [0 replies]

    You also said:

    Torcer: (09/14/2017) Now, now Dave… mentioning Hillary means you wanted her to win so that it would trigger some sort of crisis or something… /sarc. [0 replies]

  123. KirklesWorth says:

    How was I a “big Trump supporter”? Technically you are just as big a Trump supporter as I.

  124. Mr. Freemarket says:

    You have a few options:

    1. Continue to be a Trump cheerleader, which apparently consists of attacking those who express opposition or disappointment to a Trump position,

    2. Admit that your assessment of Trump was incorrect; he isn’t, in fact, as conservative as you thought.”

    3. Confess that you supported Trump and knew that he wasn’t a conservative, revealing that you really aren’t a conservative either.

    4. When Trump changes a major position that resulted in his election, decide that you would rather not engage in a discussion that reveals the sandy foundation of his election as a “conservative” candidate.

    5. Attack others because that is more fun that addressing the distressing issues at hand.

  125. Mr. Freemarket says:

    And this is why most of them needed a lot of remedial help to graduate from college.

  126. KirklesWorth says:

    Continue to be a Trump cheerleader, which apparently consists of attacking those who express opposition or disappointment to a Trump position,

    Cite where I am a “Trump cheerleader”.. Cite where I have “attacked” anyone here other than defending Trump supporters from insinuations that defeating Hillary was a “mistake”.

    Admit that your assessment of Trump was incorrect; he isn’t, in fact, as conservative as you thought.”

    Are you kidding me? Where did I ever claim he was a conservative? Who are you to demand my piety?

    Confess that you supported Trump and knew that he wasn’t a conservative, revealing that you really aren’t a conservative either.

    Again – get over yourself! Prove any of it. I have no intention of groveling for anyone’s “forgiveness” or stand here while you impugn my conservative bona fides.

    When Trump changes a major position that resulted in his election, decide that you would rather not engage in a discussion that reveals the sandy foundation of his election as a “conservative” candidate.

    Lecture yourself Trumper!

    Attack others because that is more fun that addressing the distressing issues at hand.

    Who is doing the “attacking”? Who are you to arbitrate what I say or do?

  127. Bodhisattva says:

    Of course that was to some extent “FAKE NEWS” – Trump did say he would get the bill passed one way or the other and as a wakeup call warned the Republicans they better get their act together or he would see if the Democrats would work with him. It’s an empty threat – we all know no bill that both they would pass and Trump would sign would come from any such effort.

    The claims from Democrats were, as usual, completely false. They suggested Trump had caved in major ways – announcements that were quickly followed by word from Trump’s people that no such thing had occurred.

  128. Bodhisattva says:

    Since neither Torcer nor Kirklesworth will be the adult and let the other rant on like a child and just ignore them, maybe at some point the owner of this space, Mr. Blount, will decide ENOUGH and, except where they post things that don’t mention or attack the other, delete their posts so they will get the message they’re wasting their time and effort.

    We see both your posts aimed at the other, but we pretty much ignore them, at least that bit. When one of you says something about a current event that may not be “the rest of the story” (see below, I mentioned something about the false claim Trump is caving and giving the Democrats everything they want in exchange for their help passing health care reform – that would no doubt be as bad or worse as what we got under Obama if he DID work with the Democrats on that) we may comment, but we pretty much ignore the accusations, counter accusations and rebuttals.

    You two need to get a room and settle it there, not here.

  129. KirklesWorth says:

    As always, the voice of reason.

  130. Bodhisattva says:

    AS I SAID in an earlier post, those who kneel actually don’t realize they’re engaging in a gesture that is even more respectful, in a way. Taking a knee isn’t a protest, it’s a sign of respect, so in trying to draw attention to themselves (which is what is disrespectful) at such times, they’re actually showing even more respect due to the position they’ve taken. Claiming they show that they don’t respect America but taking a knee – just proving how clueless they are.

  131. KirklesWorth says:

    Sorry Bodhisattva, you lectured me like this on mad dog – and you know how that came out. Anyone claiming defeating Hillary was a mistake is worthy of contempt in my book. Torcer is the one who keeps bringing this to new threads.

    (Update) I found the post where we talked about this before:

    KirklesWorth►Bodhisattva: (09/20/2016) You are right of course. But Torcer is a conservative on all points other than Trump as far as I can tell. And even being anti-Trump, its not a troll about it like 762×51. If it doesn’t post things needing correction or perspective, I won’t have to respond.

    (Update) I found another post where you were included:

    KirklesWorth►Alphamail: (11/12/2016) Bodhisattiva is kind of like the Moonbattery mentor Torcer wished it was. Bodhisattiva actually seems more objective and conservative than Dave Blount, but at least Dave doesn’t ban people for criticizing him or his opinions. I have defended Torcer as being a conservative despite its anti-Trump obsession.

  132. Bodhisattva says:

    Worthy of contempt, well that’s your call. This childish back and forth is making you both look bad. I’m not trying to “lecture” you, just let you know that you would both be better off if you would forget the other exists for a while. But it’s your choice.

  133. Torcer says:

    Well, consider the fact that it’s the originator of attacks against Conservatives that keeps on launching it’s attacks on me and others, wasting our time and arguing the past.

    I would prefer not to have to deal with this, As I have explained I have much better things to do such as this:

    NYT pegs the absurdity needle: For all its flaws, the Communist revolution taught Chinese women to dream big.
    By Torcer
    One of the fascinating aspects of studying the Left is that they are endlessly contradictory. In some cases a new socialist regime will be celebrated by the Left as a pre-eminent utopia, and later on deny that was socialist when it inevitably fails. In others the Left will do it’s level best to whitewash the horror of mass murder and brutal oppression of past collectivist system in hopes of reviving their base ideology. The New York Times is currently in the later process with it’s series ‘Red Century’ Exploring the history and legacy of Communism, 100 years after the Russian Revolution, with delightful pieces such as: “Why George Bernard Shaw Had a Crush on Stalin” and “My Grandfather, the Secret Policeman.”

    In this case, the New York Times is ignoring the horrible aspects of Chinese Communism while holding it up as a bastion of feminism: For all its flaws, the Communist revolution taught Chinese women to dream big.

    At the beginning of the piece the author quotes her grandmother:

    “The Communists did many terrible things,” my grandmother always says at the end of her reminiscences. “But they made women’s lives much better.”

    [Our emphasis]
    Does that make sense to anybody?
    Reactions

    “The gulag system wasn’t perfect, but it taught Russians the value of a strong work ethic.” https://t.co/ycg9zrsG56
    — Ian Tuttle (@iptuttle) September 26, 2017

    NYT opinion next week: for all its flaws, Hitler’s Nazi movement bought healthy vegetarian meal planning to the Reich.
    — Inez Stepman (@InezFeltscher) September 26, 2017

    Final Thoughts
    It’s been said that the decreased population that resulted from the Black Death of the 1340s assisted the survivors because they now had more opportunities, but was it worth the millions who died? To be clear, there is simply no comparison between the advantages of economic liberty to that of Communism. In most collectivist systems one is told what they are going to study and their ultimate career path, this is hardly conducive to one dream(ing) big. It is only under the flag of freedom that all people are allowed to rise of fall, according to their innate gifts and abilities.

    It is also beyond absurd to dismiss the “terrible things” of Communism and other socialist systems given the sheer magnitude of their crimes. Can women ‘dream big’ in North Korea and Venezuela when they struggle on a daily basis to feed their children?
    http://noqreport.com/2017/09/28/nyt-pegs-absurdity-needle-flaws-communist-revolution-taught-chinese-women-dream-big/

  134. KirklesWorth says:

    Thanks for weighing in, but as with mad dog, I’m going to defend Trump supporters for defeating Hillary. Whether people want to insult Trump here or not is inconsequential now (and I probably agree with the criticism).

  135. KirklesWorth says:

    Bodhisativa responds more to your stories than I do. I just defend Trump supporters.

  136. Torcer says:

    Keep in mind it’s the originator of attacks against Conservatives who has kept up these incessant attacks.

  137. Torcer says:

    Please keep in mind that this began with my attempt to elicit some sort of civil debate over Trump Moving Left on Healthcare. Also not that I try to keep my responses short and to the point whenever it is possible.

  138. KirklesWorth says:

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”? You know they’re just waiting to say it.
    Torcer: Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?
    TrojanMan [immediately recognizes the scenario and states:] Here we go again… LOL
    KirklesWorth: What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?
    Torcer: No, the mistake of choosing the wrong candidate. But it is an entirely pointless exercise in arguing the past. The question now becomes one of whether or not incorrect behaviour should be reinforced? [Irrelevant BF Skinner posting to irrelevant question edited for brevity and “link games” rendered moot with “what does that matter anyway?” and “minutia [sic] of the past”. Within two comments of each other, Torcer argued the past and then condemned arguing the past]
    KirklesWorth: [Ignoring irrelevant question and link] So you mean pre-July-20th-2016 Trump supporters.
    [Torcer’s evasive questions edited for brevity]
    [KirklesWorth’s response to evasive and hypocritical questions edited for brevity]
    Torcer: Do you have some innate need to argue over minutia?

  139. Torcer says:

    And now we’re down to the the originator of attacks against Conservatives wasting time hurling a blizzard of postings.

    Everyone should note that it is wasting more time trying to AVOID debate on the issue than it would were it to do so……

    …Which only deepens the mystery of why the originator of attacks against Conservatives is here…

  140. KirklesWorth says:

    Well, when you lie about the “the originator of attacks against Conservatives”, the truth is going to catch up with you.

  141. Torcer says:

    Heh! It would be nice if KirklesWorth would debate like an adult, but I suppose that is too much to expect…

  142. Torcer says:

    Ah yes, and now the originator of attacks against Conservatives delves further into the gutter.

  143. Torcer says:

    Same here, I do have some curiosity in trying figure it out, but as they say I have much bigger fish to fry:

    NYT pegs the absurdity needle: For all its flaws, the Communist revolution taught Chinese women to dream big.
    By Torcer
    One of the fascinating aspects of studying the Left is that they are endlessly contradictory. In some cases a new socialist regime will be celebrated by the Left as a pre-eminent utopia, and later on deny that was socialist when it inevitably fails. In others the Left will do it’s level best to whitewash the horror of mass murder and brutal oppression of past collectivist system in hopes of reviving their base ideology. The New York Times is currently in the later process with it’s series ‘Red Century’ Exploring the history and legacy of Communism, 100 years after the Russian Revolution, with delightful pieces such as: “Why George Bernard Shaw Had a Crush on Stalin” and “My Grandfather, the Secret Policeman.”

    In this case, the New York Times is ignoring the horrible aspects of Chinese Communism while holding it up as a bastion of feminism: For all its flaws, the Communist revolution taught Chinese women to dream big.

    At the beginning of the piece the author quotes her grandmother:

    “The Communists did many terrible things,” my grandmother always says at the end of her reminiscences. “But they made women’s lives much better.”

    [Our emphasis]
    Does that make sense to anybody?
    Reactions

    “The gulag system wasn’t perfect, but it taught Russians the value of a strong work ethic.” https://t.co/ycg9zrsG56
    — Ian Tuttle (@iptuttle) September 26, 2017

    NYT opinion next week: for all its flaws, Hitler’s Nazi movement bought healthy vegetarian meal planning to the Reich.
    — Inez Stepman (@InezFeltscher) September 26, 2017

    Final Thoughts
    It’s been said that the decreased population that resulted from the Black Death of the 1340s assisted the survivors because they now had more opportunities, but was it worth the millions who died? To be clear, there is simply no comparison between the advantages of economic liberty to that of Communism. In most collectivist systems one is told what they are going to study and their ultimate career path, this is hardly conducive to one dream(ing) big. It is only under the flag of freedom that all people are allowed to rise of fall, according to their innate gifts and abilities.

    It is also beyond absurd to dismiss the “terrible things” of Communism and other socialist systems given the sheer magnitude of their crimes. Can women ‘dream big’ in North Korea and Venezuela when they struggle on a daily basis to feed their children?
    http://noqreport.com/2017/09/28/nyt-pegs-absurdity-needle-flaws-communist-revolution-taught-chinese-women-dream-big/

  144. KirklesWorth says:

    #1 Already disproven here.

  145. TED says:

    AMEN!!! The THINGS SOME people will do to keep A JOB!

  146. Torcer says:

    Well, we had much better choices earlier in the primary season and it would have been FAR better for the country and the world had they been the standard bearers..

  147. TED says:

    BET ‘CHA, If they are there they are STEALING something, EVEN with the money THEY make!!! You can take THE BOYS out of the low-lifes, BUT!!!!

  148. TED says:

    Well you know those types and their locker rooms!!!

  149. TED says:

    It’s the LEFT that maintains the story so ACCURACY is NOT to be expected!!! Blacks today have NO IDEA what they did back then, they just do what their liberal masters tell them to do!!!

  150. TED says:

    OH YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Watch dem eyes bug out THEN!!!

  151. TED says:

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-MEN!!!

  152. Torcer says:

    This is true, but this is also the man who expressed support for single payer type healthcare so it is difficult to determine which way this will go. This is a very important issue that could decide the fate of the nation.

    And unfortunately, we cannot rely on the RINO’s to stand firm in the preservation of Liberty in this regard.

  153. Bodhisattva says:

    I will admit I cannot tell, based on so many posts back and forth, who is keeping it going. All I know is neither of you is adult enough to ignore the other and that makes me sad.

  154. Bodhisattva says:

    I can understand that sentiment. And I have to admit, your system for tracking posts is pretty impressive. I just wish there was a better objective you could use it to attain. What is your objective, anyway? What would make you happy with regards to this back and forth between you & Torcer?

  155. Bodhisattva says:

    I don’t know… people used to complain I posted too much here – but that is not my complaint. I welcome people to post as much as they want about current events and important stuff. And now and then things that aren’t so important but sure are funny.

  156. KirklesWorth says:

    I am defending Trump supporters and subsequent conservetives therein from anti-Trumpers and Hillary lackeys. My M.O. before the election was to defeat Hillary. Now conservatives can hold his feet to the fire and I will cheer them on – but don’t say that defeating Hillary was a “mistake” or that Trump supporters are wrong for doing what they had to do.

    I updated a previous post with this chat we had:

    KirklesWorth►Bodhisattva: (09/20/2016) You are right of course. But Torcer is a conservative on all points other than Trump as far as I can tell. And even being anti-Trump, its not a troll about it like 762×51. If it doesn’t post things needing correction or perspective, I won’t have to respond.

  157. KirklesWorth says:

    It is what it is. I commented to Dave Blount about how much content you generated and how I thought maybe you could be more than just a poster.

  158. KirklesWorth says:

    If this is any indication of the bad blood, this was Torcer’s first post to me:

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (07/22/2016) Is there some reason you would rather focus your efforts on trying to intimating others into acquiescing to your bad choice than defeating the national socialist left in November?

    With Torcer lighting the fuse and mad dog foaming at the mouth, I had to come up with a tool to respond to their various tactics and demands for proof. Now, the proof is so overwhelming that people get over-saturated. But when I neglect any excerpts or citations, Torcer asks for them. Just look at all the questions Torcer generated in a couple of weeks.

    I thought I would look up my first comment To Torcer too just for fairness. Torcer started with:

    Torcer: (07/13/2016) To those who support Trump.
    Those of you who support Trump and still consider yourselves to be patriotic have a duty to carefully consider the evidence at hand on what is going on in the party.
    First of all, you need to carefully think about why up to 12 Million Democrats temporarily crossed over to support Trump during the primaries. And you have to consider why a hostile press supported Trump with free airtime during this time period.
    Think about it: Why would the Democrats desperately want Trump to be the nominee?
    Second, you also have a duty to thoughtfully reflect on the fact that most polls and analysis shown Trump losing in an electoral bloodbath.
    Why are some not bothered by this reality?
    Third, There is also the very strange case of a presidential candidate taking action against his own interests.
    Again, Why are some not alarmed by this circumstance?
    These are very dangerous aspects that should serve as a big flashing WARNING sign to Trump supporters – if they were interested in winning. And yet some dismiss these items without a second thought – Why?
    The purpose of this is to plead with those who support Trump to consider the evidence at hand and help avoid setting a temporary mistake in stone that very well could be the grave marker for the party.. and the nation as constituted…
    The evidence I have presented should be the impetus for you to reconsider your support for Trump.
    There is no rational point to supporting a candidate who will lose and take down the rest of the party with him. As previously stated, there are some in the Trump movement who are immune to facts and reality. Thus, there is only one logical conclusion for their actions and that is to have him lose and help Comrade Clinton win.

    Those of you in the formerly Conservative media can find redemption in what you do now. You along with every other true patriots in the Trump camp should be taking the following steps:
    1. Be mindful of the distinct possibility of a down ballot apocalypse IF Trumps remains on the ticket.
    2. Implore Trump to drop out of this farce and let someone qualified take over in his stead.

    You are at a crossroads, stay with Trump down the dark path and you will be marching off to oblivion. Because if he is nominated your fate will be tied to his and those who cannot dwell in reality or worse yet, those who want a Trump disaster.
    It is your choice.
    It will not be easy, but doing the right thing never is.

    KirklesWorth►Torcer: (07/22/2016) why shouldn’t we be thinking about the RATs (Republicans Against Trump) voting against Trump rather than the democrats voting for him? Somehow democrats voting for Trump is proof that Trump is bad? How would you compare that to the democrats who voted for Reagan? What is not voting for Trump going to accomplish that will be so positive? Why are you facilitating this unproven “bloodbath” that you are warning everybody about?

    Are you going to be as thorough exposing what a Hillary presidency will be like? What about how Hillary would flood the country will illegals so a republican couldn’t get voted in ever again? How she considers herself above the law and would take away your rights? The civil and police wars that she and Obama instigate?

    Why are you promoting a Hillary presidency?

    Your selective indignation is interesting.

  159. Bodhisattva says:

    SANCTUARY POLICIES – FAIL!

    What new ILLEGAL ACTION will result from this?

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ice-raids-sanctuary-20170928-story.html

    ICE arrests hundreds of immigrants in ‘sanctuary cities’ around the nation, California

    Immigration officials on Thursday announced hundreds of arrests in an operation targeting communities where police and elected officials have refused to fully cooperate on enforcing federal immigration laws.

    ICE said it arrested 167 people in and around Los Angeles, a region in which several cities and counties have been tagged by justice officials as being so-called sanctuaries — a loosely defined term used to describe local governments that restrict police from assisting immigration authorities identify and detain people suspected of being in the country illegally.

    Arrests were also made in San Francisco and San Jose. Overall, ICE said it arrested nearly 500 people across the country over the last few days.

    The surge of arrests was similar in size to several past operations ICE has carried out in recent years. But the focus on places deemed by justice officials to be soft on illegal immigration served to ratchet up an already tense standoff.

    It is a SERIOUS VIOLATION of FEDERAL LAW https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f70b7c947558b9d698dc7b87ebce143b1d731cc055e6b74e9321d283d9357f37.png

    Those who make “sanctuary policies” happen are in violation of FEDERAL LAW and should be arrested, charged and prosecute.

  160. Bodhisattva says:

    Thank you, but this is his space and I am not sure I could justify or live up to the responsibilities of a more expansive role if he offered me one. I’ve got a lot of things going on and am subject to go places on a moment’s notice where I am essentially in communications blackout, even if I have access. In such situations were I more than just an ordinary poster here I would feel I was not keeping up my end.

  161. Bodhisattva says:

    Biblical plague of some sort?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/fish-fall-sky-rain-northern-mexico-011247418.html

    Civil defense officials in northeast Mexico say a light rain was accompanied by small fish that fell from the sky.

    According the U.S. Library of Congress, it’s a phenomenon that has been reported since ancient times. Scientists believe that tornadoes over water — known as waterspouts — could be responsible for sucking fish into the air where they are blown around until being released to the ground.

    Seen it before, too, more like swimming around in the sky though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVau68Yf4mA

  162. Torcer says:

    The originator of attacks against Conservatives referenced this problem from a thread 21 Days ago:

    Ted Cruz Told Us What to Expect
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=87654

    geeknerd: Will the NeverTrumpsters start shouting “See!, We told you so!”?
    You know they’re just waiting to say it.</blockquote

    Charlie Wiegert I won’t shout it. I’ll just say it calmly, quietly and with a smile. TOLD YOU SO YOU CULT45 DUMMIES!! Okay. maybe I will shout. And laugh.

    Torcer Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?

    TrojanMan Here we go again… LOL

    KirklesWorth What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?

    That is but one example.
    But just look at this thread.. The originator of attacks against Conservatives kept it up….

  163. KirklesWorth says:

    Wow! Asking “What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win?” is such an “attack”! You poor pathetic snowflake! Nothing like attacking Trump supporters by calling them “cult followers” who made a “mistake” by defeating Hillary like “Will some of a certain cult following admit their mistake?”

    There are no “attacks on conservatives” – only responses to your attacks on the “cult following” of Trump supporters whose “mistake” was defeating Hillary contrary to your wishes. Your faux “persecution complex” was disproved thusly:

    If anybody were to have “attacked” you for being a conservative, it would probably be for the anti-Trump articles you posted…yet that didn’t happen:

    Torcer: (09/11/2017) Disaster: trump Looks to Follow Democrats to Abolish Debt Ceiling Altogether [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/11/2017) trump-Democrat deal makes national debt POLE VAULT past $20 TRILLION!! [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/09/2017) OUCH: Ann Coulter Burns trump Again … Painfully [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) If Only Someone Had Warned Them! [Several replies, all cordial]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) At this point, who DOESN’T want trump impeached? [0 replies]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) ‘Amnesty Don’: trump’s Base Reacts to the Pelosi-Schumer DACA Deal (2) Laura Ingraham scolds trump: ‘When does American working class’ get amnesty? (3) Sean Hannity Blames McConnell for trump’s Deal with Dems (4) ‘Amnesty Don’ Trends at Number One on Twitter in Washington, D.C. – Breitbart (5) WHOA: Ann Coulter all but calls for trump to be impeached over DACA [1 cordial reply from Bodhisattva]
    Torcer: (09/14/2017) (1) Trump: ‘The Wall Will Come Later’ [VIDEO] trump-the-wall-will-come-later (2) FLIP: Schumer and Pelosi Announce Hot New Deal on DACA With trump trump (3) President trump made a big concession to Democrats in DACA bill talks (4) Christine Rousselle – DACA Deal Reached; No Wall, Border Security Instead (5) Report: trump Caves on DACA, Wants ‘Quick’ Amnesty for 800K Illegal Aliens – Breitbart (6) Breitbart labels trump ‘Amnesty Don’ after Dems claim DACA deal [0 replies]

    You also said:

    Torcer: (09/14/2017) Now, now Dave… mentioning Hillary means you wanted her to win so that it would trigger some sort of crisis or something… /sarc. [0 replies]

  164. KirklesWorth says:

    The only gutter resident here is you. Your “attacks against conservatives” propaganda has been disproven, and illustrated how you are the attacker of conservatives here.

  165. KirklesWorth says:

    That’s rich coming from someone who refers to others with the derogatory pronoun “it”. Here is my condensed list that is laughably complained about as an attempt to “confuse the reader with convoluted postings in one difficult to read paragraph”:

    And now the usual tactic of lies and name calling from someone who cannot mount an intellectual argument. The problem for it [1] is that it [2] won’t be able to explain my vehement opposition to to the Left it’s leadership and it’s Socialist National agenda…. Okay class, here we have so many teachable moments and so little time… At least it [3] wasn’t the usual 1000 – 2000 word time wasting screeds so that’s ‘Progress’ on it’s [4] part. First off – it [5] begins complaining about what it [6] has been doing all along. So it’s kind of interesting that it [7] loves to engage in the tactic favored by those on the national Socialist Left of accusing others of what it [8] does in spades. This goes beyond psychological phenomena of projection. It [9] has several purposes. One it confuses the issue because the debate devolves into a she–said, she-said sort of affair. Much like the Viet cong would always endeavour get as close as possible or even intermingle with the American forces of freedom and blur the battle lines and thus negate the latter’s advantages in artillery and air support. This also is an easy attack mode for those of limited moral grounding, who have no compunction following the idea of do as I say, not as I do. Second it is quite curious that it [10] appears to be following the Saul Alinsky dictum of making the enemy live up to it’s own rules… Why would a Conservative use those tactics? And instead of explaining itself it [11] merely turns the argument around. It [12] doesn’t even bother explain why it [13] Originated the tactic of initiating attacks on old threads. I could request that it [14] explain that glaring contradiction but the odds are none will be forthcoming aside for it’s [15] attempt at using meaningless cherry picked data that is based on random events.

  166. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Truth is that if we wish to eliminate symbols of institutions supportive of slavery, we would eliminate the democrat party.

  167. Mr. Freemarket says:

    The concept that “Trump is the only one who can win” was our downfall. Fact is that virtually any candidate could have beaten Hillary, the worst candidate in history. Our choice was between someone raised in Chicago versus someone raised in New York….both bastions of conservative thought.

  168. Mr. Freemarket says:

    “At the beginning of the piece the author quotes her grandmother:
    “The Communists did many terrible things,” my grandmother always says at the end of her reminiscences. “But they made women’s lives much better.”

    It is saying the same as “yes, but Hitler and Mussolini did make the trains run on time.”

  169. Bodhisattva says:

    Trump certainly was controversial – and the other Republican running against him – and perhaps afraid of what he represents, having his own wealth and being the ultimate Washington outsider in a sense, certainly had good cause to criticize him, not always unfairly. Trump seemed to invite controversy – and continues that strategy today, giving his detractors good cause to go after him, thus often revealing their petty, vindictive nature and getting even more name recognition. We always asked for someone who would stand up AND respond to the disingenuous attacks that come from the left – now we have someone who not only does that, but lures them in all the time.

    We didn’t have any perfect choices in 2016 – but when have we ever?

  170. Mr. Freemarket says:

    “Cite where I have “attacked” anyone here other than defending Trump supporters from insinuations that defeating Hillary was a “mistake”.”

    Sadly, I don’t possess the same software tools that you have, therefore, I make no attempt to provide past citations that either I or others have made. The question was never whether defeating Hillary was a mistake. The question was whether Trump was the best candidate that the GOP could put forward. During the primary season, prior to Trump winning the nomination, you relentlessly attacked me for my support of Ted Cruz. Feel free to use your wayback machine to cite some of those posts where you agree that Cruz could have been a viable, conservative candidate.

    “Who are you to demand my piety?”

    I make no such demand. Provide an example where you are less than a 100% Trump supporter and that will help establish that you are either 1) a conservative, and/or 2) at least somewhat objective in your views towards Trump versus other candidates.

    From Merriam-Webster: “Definition of piety

    plural pieties
    1 :the quality or state of being pious: such as
    a :fidelity to natural obligations (as to parents)
    b :dutifulness in religion :devoutness
    2 :an act inspired by piety
    3 :a conventional belief or standard :orthodoxy”

    Unlike some, I expect reverence or piety only with regards to the Supreme Being. Politics is definitely outside that realm. Unlike some, I have never said “thank God for Donald Trump” or “thank God for Ted Cruz.”

    ” while you impugn my conservative bona fides.”

    I am unaware of your conservative bona fides. Yet that is essentially what this thread is about. Conservatives tend to support conservative principles. Trump appears to be moving away from a conservative position on the subject of Health Care. You have chosen to neither support nor oppose his move, which is a curious position for a conservative to take. One might conclude that a) health care as a topic or issue isn’t important to you, or b) as a Trump supporter you are now caught in a no-win position since it is difficult to be both a conservative as well as a Trump supporter on this issue, or c) you are a believer that Trump is playing some long game that he will outwit his opponents and ultimately produce some conservative result that no one expected.

    “Lecture yourself Trumper!”

    Unlike some others, I tried to go into the voting booth with my eyes open. I called myself, at the time, a tepid supporter, and regularly expressed my concern that Trump would abandon many conservative positions. My intent then and now is to attempt to move Trump and his supporters in the direction of conservatism.

    Of course your post begs the question:
    If I’m the Trump supporter, then what was this detente that you reference, and what did we used to argue about?

    “Who are you to arbitrate what I say or do?”

    You are a free man, free to support or oppose any position or topic you wish. Feel free to participate in this private forum any way you wish. We can only determine who you are from what you choose to argue.

  171. Mr. Freemarket says:

    Ah, yes, the “all or nothing” position. If you are not with us, you oppose us.

    Back in the day, as memory serves, you posted with arguments in favor of Trump. I many times pointed out his shortcomings.

    Or am I simply confused?

  172. Mr. Freemarket says:

    “As I told Torcer, nobody is “attacking” people for pointing out Trump’s shortcomings – just for implying that Trump supporters made a mistake for voting Trump to prevent Hillary from winning.”

    What is this detente that you referred to? What were the conditions that led to it?

  173. Mr. Freemarket says:

    I note that you provide many posts where Torcer demands people support their positions with facts and links, yet those actual facts or links to support their opposing views seem to be in rather short supply.

  174. KirklesWorth says:

    Oops…I replied to the wrong comment and had to move it.

  175. KirklesWorth says:

    How is “Technically you are just as big a Trump supporter as I” an “all or nothing position”? You wanted Hillary defeated as did I. The “argument in favor of Trump” was defeating Hillary – the same argument you used.

  176. KirklesWorth says:

    You said you voted to defeat Hillary. That was my goal and you demonstrated your loyalty is to the country and what is best for it – not just for conservative ideals that would mean nothing if Hillary won. Your intentions were understandable – other anti-Trumpers’ intentions were murky or downright troubling.

    So it’s been détente with most anti-Trumpers that are still here since the election, and TDS isn’t a threat like it was before the election – it’s now a positive thing to make sure Trump keeps his promises and acts conservatively.

  177. KirklesWorth says:

    Mr. Freemarket►KirklesWorth: (09/29/2017) Sadly, I don’t possess the same software tools that you have, therefore, I make no attempt to provide past citations that either I or others have made.

    I would think not having evidence would prevent one from making innaccurate observations – but that’s just me. Does that mean you retract your claim:

    Continue to be a Trump cheerleader, which apparently consists of attacking those who express opposition or disappointment to a Trump position,

    “During the primary season, prior to Trump winning the nomination, you relentlessly attacked me for my support of Ted Cruz. Feel free to use your wayback machine to cite some of those posts where you agree that Cruz could have been a viable, conservative candidate.

    Suggestion accepted. Oh, I’m sorry – I forgot you anti-Trump Moonbattery veterans are ultra-sensitive to being “attacked”. Here, I’ll make it easy for you and list the whopping 14 times I “relentlessly attacked” you about Ted Cruz (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14) and you can tell me what was so painful.

    I make no such demand. Provide an example where you are less than a 100% Trump supporter and that will help establish that you are either 1) a conservative, and/or 2) at least somewhat objective in your views towards Trump versus other candidates.

    Sorry, you made the claim – you back it up or retract it.

    Unlike some, I expect reverence or piety only with regards to the Supreme Being. Politics is definitely outside that realm. Unlike some, I have never said “thank God for Donald Trump” or “thank God for Ted Cruz.”

    Bingo. You called me a “Trump cheerleader”, “attacker” of those who oppose Trump, admission, confession, revelation – you are trying to set this scenario up as a some sort of religious cult of which I must demonstrate my apostasy.

    I am unaware of your conservative bona fides.

    Playing dumb now? So be it – you still voted to defeat Hillary.

    Conservatives tend to support conservative principles. Trump appears to be moving away from a conservative position on the subject of Health Care.

    True. So what am I obligated to do to earn your favor?

    One might conclude that a) health care as a topic or issue isn’t important to you, or b) as a Trump supporter you are now caught in a no-win position since it is difficult to be both a conservative as well as a Trump supporter on this issue, or c) you are a believer that Trump is playing some long game that he will outwit his opponents and ultimately produce some conservative result that no one expected.

    You forgot “d) who cares what I think?” I am in no such “no-win position” any more than you are.

    Unlike some others, I tried to go into the voting booth with my eyes open. I called myself, at the time, a tepid supporter, and regularly expressed my concern that Trump would abandon many conservative positions. My intent then and now is to attempt to move Trump and his supporters in the direction of conservatism.

    Perfect…I couldn’t have set it better myself.

    If I’m the Trump supporter, then what was this detente that you reference, and what did we used to argue about?

    Mr. Freemarket►KirklesWorth: (08/04/2016) And is nominating someone who is 66% conservative a winning strategy, when Mitt lost the conservative base in 2012 which cost him the presidency and subjected us to four more years of Obama?
    Mr. Freemarket►KirklesWorth: (08/05/2016) Dear Trump Supporter:
    Mr. Freemarket►KirklesWorth: (08/05/2016) “Anti-Trumpers” are not asking for you to support/not support “their” candidate. They have no candidate to support or not support. Trump supporters are/should be asking for the votes of “anti-Trumpers” since they are the ones wishing to garner votes for their candidate.

    Want more?

    You are a free man, free to support or oppose any position or topic you wish. Feel free to participate in this private forum any way you wish. We can only determine who you are from what you choose to argue.

    Thanks, that’s all I can ask – and not be accused of things with no proof.

  178. Torcer says:

    It’s doubtful we will ever have good choices – but that points to the sheer genius of the founding fathers in creating a new form of governance that strove to limit it’s influence in the everyone’s lives. They knew that people were imperfect and the only way to limit the damage from those in power was to constrain it as much as possible.

    Recently there was radio talk show host talking about his upbringing and the fact that he didn’t know the party affiliation of his father. Most likely because back in those days governmental and political issues didn’t hold as much sway in everyone’s daily lives. The government had it’s limited role and stayed in the background.

    These days you can’t escape it – up to and including those aspects of life that were meant to be an escape. Movies, sports and of course the tele are rife with politics.

  179. Torcer says:

    That was partially my point in commenting on the piece. In their zeal to revive the vile, immoral and parasitic organized evil that is socialism and all of it variants, they were willing to look past deliberate mass murder and oppression on an industrial scale. Why would anyone wish to recreate that horror?

    BTW, I’m not sanguine about the avatar they used – I have to submit something better.

    What do you think – should I use my usual ‘Che is Dead’ image from the People’s cube or the Victims of Che image:

    http://www.yaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/YAF-Che-Poster-draft-5.png

  180. Torcer says:

    Consider the fact that the Left dominates the culture, Media and indoctrination centres and that it’s been estimated that this could account for a 10 – 15 % advantage by the national socialist Left. Given that an that many are sick of the direction the nation is careening most likely most of the GOP primary candidates could have won. We also didn’t know the turn of events with the Comrade Clinton e-mail scandal and all of it’s ancillary effects. The point is that we could have done better and the issue of healthcare could be our undoing..

  181. KirklesWorth says:

    After re-reading your comment, I realized I misinterpreted what you were saying and rewrote this reply. Are you saying my obligation is to provide others with my time and effort to corroborate their views because they are incapable of making their points on their own? More ridiculousness.

  182. Bodhisattva says:

    I will be the first to admit that Trump does give me some SMALL concerns – some of the concerns voiced by people during the election may yet come to fruition. On the other hand I don’t expect him to be perfect – I expect, just like Bush II and Bush I, that in 4 to 8 years he will do many things, some of which I won’t like. Sure, I’d rather he just does good, but what are the odds of that? I will say so far most of the reports that he’s already done something we were warned he might do are FAKE NEWS – I would like to see a list of anything significantly negative he has done that even approaches what Hillary would have done, if anyone has one. Can’t really blame spending on him – CONGRESS has the power of the purse. He just gets to recommend a budget then sign or veto it.

    I did not understand those who said it would be better to let Hillary win, which failing to elect Trump would have assured, other than to say they had what, to them, were legitimate concerns that electing Trump would lead to the end of the Republican party and, for the foreseeable future, dominance by the Democrats or, perhaps, nuclear war. I think the latter was more likely to get here in a way that would put us at a disadvantage had Clinton been elected. It seems now inevitable that either Iran or North Korea will wind up causing a nuke to go off somewhere and what happens next is anyone’s guess. I read an article suggesting that North Korea might choose to launch one over Russian Territory, hoping to use their defense systems as “cover” to prevent us from doing anything to try and shoot it down in early or mid course.

  183. Bodhisattva says:

    Yes, I agree with you that it was CRITICAL to defeat Hillary even if Trump turns out to do some things we don’t like.

    That has been my position since it became clear the Democrats were going to rig whatever elections they had to and get as many illegals to illegally vote as they had to in order to make sure Hillary got into office. It’s such sweet victory that they failed, even if they did, because of millions of illegal votes from non-citizens in New York and California, due to lax or no voter ID requirements, appear to get the popular vote majority.

    That is EXACTLY why we have the Electoral College, a point also underlined in 2000.

  184. Bodhisattva says:

    You know, people attacked me – and I’m sure they felt their attacks were just at the time, even though they absolutely were not.

    I just let it go.

  185. Bodhisattva says:

    You know, I think you state right there that while Torcer APPARENTLY (if my memory serves, and if it doesn’t, your records will suffice perhaps) was a bit misguided about things, that’s over now. I don’t see what rehashing it over and over does to help us join together and move forward as a cohesive force towards the future we need to attain. This thing you two got going is a small example of the problems the Republicans have in general – unable to come together effectively, move past old stuff and get what needs to be done done. Of course that’s also due to RINOs in the ranks and people who’s brain cancer has apparently morphed them into MOONBATS who should have been termed out of office 3 terms ago…

  186. Bodhisattva says:

    But, apparently, these guys are so desperate to show how subservient they can be that THEY kneel… maybe so they can claim, in some crazy universe only they can find, we somehow made them do it?

  187. Torcer says:

    Well, it is my contention that the government should be small enough that it is inconsequential for the most part with regard to who occupies the Oval office.

    We could have done better, but that now is but a steady state hydraulic flow beneath a structural conveyance.

    We should be focusing our efforts in holding the people accountable that we voted into office and keeping them on the straight and narrow.

  188. Bodhisattva says:

    I don’t think, in this day & age, that who is in the White House can ever come close to being inconsequential. I agree the government is way, way too big, much duplication of effort, many things they are in where they have no right, no Constitutional authority, to be there and even clear prohibition they’ve strayed into things that ” are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” per the exact wording of the 10th Amendment. And yes, we do need to focus more on holding people accountable – but since they’re only accountable to themselves the way the system works (can Trump change that and, more important, WILL HE?) what good will it do? The system must change.

    With the candidates we were given to choose from I’m not convinced, at this point, we really could have done better. Not sure what you meant by that part. Explain only if you care to do so.

  189. Bodhisattva says:

    On another note… well I guess I can ask this here…

    I more or less did a “brain dump” after the election ended – had to in order to stay sane and prepare to deal with the massive nonsense that followed from the lunatic left. I do remember broad strokes… like Mr. Blount did go overboard – IN MY OPINION – from time to time with his speculation about what might happen if Trump was elected. But at the time I also remember thinking this is his space and so, like it or not, he can pretty much say whatever he damn well pleases and if we don’t like it we need to find somewhere else to air out our spleens. And to take that idea further there is only one arbiter of when someone has gone too far here – the owner of this space. With that as a background, I think he was pretty tolerant of both the extreme (sometimes to the point of near insanity) Trump supporters and the opposite end of the spectrum – those so anti-Trump they would have rather had Putin or even the Ayatollahs of Iran or the midget dictator of N. Korea, not to mention Hillary (Damn I just did), instead. Yeah he pretty much let us all have our say no matter what he said – and sometimes I wondered how serious he was (probably totally) about the things he said, whether he was just presenting some of the further out viewpoints that were around (probably not) when I felt maybe he’d gone a bit too far. So I tried not to be critical. And the same with everyone else TO A DEGREE – but the standard was different with people who DID NOT own this space. They, to me, were a bit more “fair game” when they went way out into the fringe.

    But my point, which I wandered considerably away from, was I seem to recall you were a pretty strong Trump supporter, weren’t you? From the very start though? Through thick and thin? Never had any doubts? Had any doubts since the election? Just want to get a feel for your position here. I find in having discussions it helps to know where people stand – got a liberal, a guy who’s really kinda close to me – who will say I said things I never did say. But then again I get that all the time from liberals. I try to explain to him the fact he so often misrepresents what I’ve actually written – in places like this – claiming I said things that aren’t even close, really prevents us from having any sort of adult discussion. But he won’t stop doing it. So I know how that feels, anyway.

  190. Bodhisattva says:

    I understand, or let me say I’m willing to stipulate that, based on his past words and deeds, there are many things I am concerned Trump WILL do during his time in office that I won’t like, some that I may be strongly opposed to as well.

    If the Republicans would get their act together and maybe tie John McCain up in a broom closet in one of the Senate Office buildings for a while, along with all the other Senators who passed any obamacare repeal or replace bills when Obama was in office… not in a way that would cause them any lasting harm, mind you… but just long enough so they can get some of the stuff done that needs to be done, I bet Trump would work with them for the most part.

    Too bad we don’t have another “Contract with America” style plan in the works.

    Oh wait, we did!

    https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf

  191. Bodhisattva says:

    You don’t know me that well. I have my moments…

  192. KirklesWorth says:

    Contrary to @torcer:disqus’s faux persecution complex, there never were any so-called “attacks on conservatives”…except by Torcer. This post will comment mainly on some of the events that occurred on September 28th, 2017 on the Moonbattery Open Thread with occasional references to other posts.

    Torcer attacked Trump supporters as “cult followers” who made a “mistake” defeating Hillary. Of course Torcer <a href="had no candidate when the November 2016 election came around, so the result of Torcer‘s anti-Trumpness would have been a Hillary presidency. But apparently I’m not permitted to question Torcer with What “mistake”? Not letting Hillary win? lest I be branded the “originator of attack on conservativeS” (note the plurality for extra exaggerated goodness) according to Torcer. So Torcer continued to do what Torcer does best and used the tried-and-true leftist tactics of propaganda, deceit, and outright lying:

    “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth” – Joseph Goebbels.
    “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon” – Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals #5.
    “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” – Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals #12.
    Decaff: This is a case where someone doesn’t try to win in the marketplace of ideas and just attempts to shout down the opposing voices – Torcer on Moonbattery Open Thread on 09/19/2017.

    Torcer continued to try and weasel out of his/her attack on Trump conservatives by demonizing the opposition using the tactics listed above…after abandoning the tactic of demanding I prove Torcer was a Hillary lackey (which is going quite well). This demonization takes place over saveral Torcer-initiated attack threads: 1. 09/09/2017, 2. 09/11/2017, 3. 09/13/2017, 4. 09/13/2017, 5. 09/13/2017, 6. 09/13/2017, 7. 09/15/2017, 8. 09/15/2017, 9. 09/19/2017, 10. 09/19/2017, 11. 09/19/2017, 12. 09/20/2017, 13. 09/20/2017, 14. 09/20/2017, 15. 09/26/2017, 16. 09/27/2017, 17. 09/28/2017,
    18. 09/28/2017

    This will be a quick review of what took place on Sep. 28th, 2017 on this Moonbattery Open Thread. Please note that I started no threads about Torcer, yet Torcer initiated three attack threads at or against me on 09/28/2017. 1 2 3. This is particularly hypocritical after projecting this behavior on me (derogatorily referred to with the pronoun “it”):

    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/15/2017) Especially when it doesn’t actually put forward an intellectual argument and instead incessantly attacks with lies and falsehoods.
    Torcer►geeknerd: (09/20/2017) Yes, I understand that sentiment, but one finds that difficult when it insists on initiating attacks incessantly on old thread…
    Torcer►TED: (09/21/2017) One does have to wonder why it is incessantly attacking those of us on the Conservative Right…
    Torcer►Bodhisattva: (09/28/2017) Keep in mind it’s the originator of attacks against Conservatives who has kept up these incessant attacks.

    Within these three attack threads, the following list below demonstrates the one day barrage of Torcer‘s leftist attacks limited to just the ones accusing me of “attacking conservatives” (yes there are multiple postings of the same comment):

    1. It also explain why KirklesWorth attacks Conservatives.
    2. So are you going go through your usual method of attacking Conservatives with long screeds over past events?
    3. Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    4. And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:
    5. Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question.
    6. Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    7. Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.
    8. Clearly the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot address that question.
    9. Just as it cannot address the question of it attacking Conservatives.
    10. And Once again, the originator of attacks against Conservatives on old threads FAILS Address the issue of Trump moving Left on healthcare:
    11. Which only deepens the mystery of why the originator of attacks against Conservatives is here…
    12. And now we’re down to the the originator of attacks against Conservatives wasting time hurling a blizzard of postings.
    13. Everyone please note that the originator of attacks against Conservatives cannot explain that contradiction and thus has to deflect the question.
    14. Well, consider the fact that it’s the originator of attacks against Conservatives that keeps on launching it’s attacks on me and others, wasting our time and arguing the past.
    15. Keep in mind it’s the originator of attacks against Conservatives who has kept up these incessant attacks.
    16. And now we’re down to the the originator of attacks against Conservatives wasting time hurling a blizzard of postings.
    17. Which only deepens the mystery of why the originator of attacks against Conservatives is here…
    18. Ah yes, and now the originator of attacks against Conservatives delves further into the gutter.
    19. The originator of attacks against Conservatives referenced this problem from a thread 21 Days ago:
    20. The originator of attacks against Conservatives kept it up.

    Let’s see how Torcer would respond about someone using far-left tactics to completely misrepresent this situation:

    Torcer: So you don’t even have the moral underpinnings to admit to what you were doing?
    Torcer: Clearly we are dealing with someone without any moral grounding.

  193. Bodhisattva says:

    I think I was attacked for being FOR TRUMP, AGAINST TRUMP and ON THE FENCE ABOUT TRUMP all at the same time.

    It was a strange time.

  194. KirklesWorth says:

    Yeah, reminds me of your conversation with TED:

    TED►Bodhisattva: (11/22/2016) OMG, I hadn’t realized YOU were a Brownshirt also, I guess because I didn’t pay that much attention to you. It WlLL be LESS now. TTFN.
    Bodhisattva►TED: (11/22/2016) accusing me of being a “Brownshirt” displays your complete ignorance of me. Whether it is situational (just hasn’t really noticed the thrust of my posts) or willful remains to be seen. But in any case, you paying less attention to me just may be a win for me, from some points of view. TTFN, if you really mean it.
    TED►Bodhisattva: (11/23/2016) Oh I see, you just DEFEND them. the POS is a TROLL. The company YOU keep. PLEASE, consider it a win!

    The Moonbattery anti-Trumper veterans are easily triggered and sensitive to “attacks”.

  195. Torcer says:

    I understand, or let me say I’m willing to stipulate that, based on his past words and deeds, there are many things I am concerned Trump WILL do during his time in office that I won’t like, some that I may be strongly opposed to as well.

    That is my main concern. Some of his initial actions where well received – the Supreme court choice and his actions on regulations.

    One of the big issues is going to be healthcare and it’s ominous overtones.

    An with all due respect to John McCain [Full disclosure: I helped out on his run against Obama] the man needed to retire YEARS ago.. If ever there were a poster child for term limits…

  196. Torcer says:

    We should be looking to shrink down the size of the government at all levels, with functions of the Feral government devolves to the states or even localities. It is verging into the realm of scandalous that the government almost ignores the importance of the 9th & 10th amendments.

    Having control as localized as possible and with term limits that should be easier. On that last part the contention is that we could have done better – a candidate with set principles to protect liberty.
    There is no such thing as an ideal candidate, but given the circumstances a better choice would have stuck to their guns more closely.

  197. Bodhisattva says:

    We do indeed need to shrink the government as they have far exceeded what the Constitution LIMITS government to doing. But that’s just it. Liberals have re-interpreted the Constitution FALSELY to allow whatever it does not strictly prohibit rather than it’s true mandate to limit whatever isn’t strictly allowed.

    But there is an argument about that, too – since the Constitution says we are not allowed to keep a standing army, yet in this day and age we would not survive were we to follow that dictate.

    I say we must get term limits, but at the same time I understand no Congressional legislator is going to limit his term in office… or will they? Oddly enough, I believe they passed such limits at some levels in California. I have to look at it closer to understand where, what and why, but I know for certain there are now limits down here in San Diego, city at least also maybe county, and I know there are some limits in place at the state level too. I need to revisit the issue as I had let my awareness of it slip due to other things going on.

  198. Bodhisattva says:

    I agree we SHOULD have done better with regards to a candidate with set principles to protect liberty, but given those who ran I’m not sure there was a path to that goal available. I agree that’s what we NEED but if no such candidates are offered how do we get there?

    Trump made a lot of promises he knew at the time he wouldn’t be able to keep alone. Whether he trusted his negotiation skills and they turned out he was overrating himself or just the consolidated hatred that turned into absolute Trump opposition was a factor he didn’t consider… he’s learning the realities of Washington and, more important, why so many people are thinking we need to start electing outsiders, not career politicians, which is part of what helped him win in fact.

  199. Bodhisattva says:

    Bodhisattiva actually seems more objective and conservative than Dave Blount

    Thanks, but that’s a tough call and really what metrics does one use to support such a conclusion? The most we can say, IMHO, is we are all different – our experiences are largely what shape us, though the template that guides (but does not necessarily control) some of that was laid down by our genetics. Now as for:

    I have defended Torcer as being a conservative despite its anti-Trump obsession.

    That’s good – I still recommend to you both, at least until you take opposite sides during the next election cycle (assuming you do) that you start looking at what you have in common. Who was it that famously orated “A house divided against itself cannot stand!”

  200. Torcer says:

    Part of the problem is that candidate Trump made promises that were at odds to the other primary candidates as a means to best them in the primary contests, and now he is falling back to their positions. We should have realized that the candidates of the national socialist left weren’t 10’ tall and that their omnipotence was merely a chimera created by them and their media arm.

  201. Torcer says:

    I know it’s a tired cliché, but the legend of Cincinnatus is one that politicians of today should emulate. Those people who infest the swamp are not irreplaceable, we’ve got over 300 million people in the states, surely there are enough to replenish the leadership after a short time period.

  202. Mr. Freemarket says:

    The victims of Che are too small to be visible. In fact, Che is Dead is almost impossible to discern, too.

    Avatars are tough.

  203. Bodhisattva says:

    No need to go so far back to Cincinnatus – in the early days of the U.S. government service was never a career. It was more like something you did for a short time – certainly no more than a couple decades even in extreme cases.

  204. Bodhisattva says:

    What candidate has not made a single promise they went on to break? Not excusing it, but simply stating that such things are an unfortunate part of modern politics.

    Specifically what did Trump promise that he now has reversed himself on, anyway? Some of the key promises did require the cooperation of others – cooperation that even he might have known he possibly wouldn’t get and that has become reality as even Republicans turned against him due to his continuing potential to usurp the status quo and bring about the changes we’ve been demanding for at least a decade if not two.

    I will be happy if Trump delivers on several of his most important promises. A very big one was his Supreme Court nomination. And the rumor is he might get a second pick soon, a chance to shift the court significantly back to where it should be and halt the steady liberal slide that came from an out of control judicial branch.

    I did realize that Hillary was not doing nearly as well as claimed – but that does not change the fact that Trump won the Republican nomination fair and square, whereas she was nominated by hook and crook. Imagine if the Republicans had tried some shenanigans to deny Trump the nomination, as many speculated might happen.

    The left is a clear and present danger, also a constant one.

  205. Bodhisattva says:

    At the moment my vote (in 2020) is Trump’s to lose – and as you say there are a number of things he can do to lose it. Of course I say that not knowing if some “perfect” candidate (not necessarily a Republican either) will show up in time to give us a REAL choice in 2020.

    Health care – well that is actually up to Congress, not Trump, for that involves laws that… well while Obama illegally altered them, Trump knows that exceeds his power. It is frustrating when only one side follows the rules – at least when it’s the side you’re on!

    Well I didn’t much like McCain even when he ran against Obama but were I closer to him I very likely would have helped him as well when it came down to him v. Obama.

    There is a whole class photo of poster children for term limits.

    It’s called the U.S. Congress Official Photo or some such. The ones who’ve been in for decades need to be termed out NOW and the ones who just got in need to be limited to a reasonable number of years.

  206. Bodhisattva says:

    Well there were (and are) valid reasons to be a bit concerned over where Trump might take us, what he might do with the power we’ve given him. Not nearly as much as the concern for what Hillary would have done or what Obama DID, but some of the criticism of Trump was (and is) justified to a certain extent. Maybe not the way they did it, they do it and CERTAINLY not the way the left does it. They’re just a bunch of raving lunatics, nothing more.

  207. Torcer says:

    Yes, I realize that – and in fact both sides have chastised me over that avatar. Some on the Right because it somehow prompts the mass murdering thug..

    And some on the Left who tell me to leave their mass murdering thug alone…

  208. Mr. Freemarket says:

    You are up against some tough audiences.

  209. Torcer says:

    Yes, that is true, but we have truth and logic on our side..

  210. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth

    #1 Already disproven here.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3541384392

  211. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth

    Torcer►KirklesWorth: (09/13/2017) Since you made that incendiary accusation, you will be required to back it up with facts. Those FACTS will be in the form of excerpts and links (you’ve proven capable in that regard) that prove your contention.

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    ● Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    ● Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3541102975

  212. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth

    Again:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    ● Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    ● Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3541104994

  213. Torcer says:

    KirklesWorth

    That’s a laugh – a Hillary lackey talking about “moral grounding”. Clearly you can’t deny your Alinsky rules usage, so you use some more Alinsky rules. Clever! I’ve got to update my list that consists of:

    ● Torcer’s random” anti-Trump article tips.
    ● Torcer’s desire to avoid/ignore the past.
    ● Torcer’s thread-restarting obsession with KirklesWorth.
    ● Torcer’s whine about “civil debate while using the derogatory pronoun “it” against others.
    ● Torcer’s whining about the minutia[e] of a cited post.

    It’s going to get almost as long as your Hillary-helping list:

    ● Torcer’s 2.75-to-1 ratio of Trump-to-Hillary article tips that Dave Blount used
    ● Torcer’s 2.875-to-1 ratio of articles contained in an accumulated stash of 8200+ posts where 1070 posts have “Hillary” in the text and 3077 have “Trump” in the text.
    ● Torcer’s obsession with and confidence in (ultimately wrong) polls used by leftists as a manipulation tool.
    ● Eyewitness and character witness testimony of Torcer.
    ● Torcer’s lack of a viable alternative to prevent a Hillary victory.
    ● Torcer’s extensive body of work referred to as “We tried to inform you” (why Trump is bad, wrong, evil, etc.).
    ● Torcer lays the “I told you so” foundation to blame Trump supporters for Trump’s “failure” and for Hillary’s “victory”.
    ● Torcer’s Expectations of Trump Supporters – even though Torcer had no candidate and no plan to defeat Hillary, Torcer hounded people about their support for Trump regardless of how left-wing the talking points were.
    ● Torcer’s contempt for Trump supporters.
    ● Torcer’s NeverTrump record.
    ● Torcer’s 2016 election swan song trying to blame Trump supporters and dismiss any responsibilities of the anti-Trumpers.
    http://moonbattery.com/?p=88200#comment-3541131424

  214. Bodhisattva says:

    Well note that when someone starts to express concerns about something Trump has done, or rather it’s been things bad sources say he said he would do, generally, which usually turn out to be FAKE NEWS, I think it’s more appropriate to let the matter play out than to bring up the past.

    I appreciate anyone who truly defends true conservatives and their principles.

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